Are we being forced to go electric?

[mistyoptic]

Surely we’re all agreed it’s a bad idea. Why does it have to turn into yet another bickering match?

 

[cougie uk]

Exactly this. Size and power output of cars has increased massively in recent years IMO, based on the number of mahoosive obscenely overpowered Chelsea tractors on the road.

... checks for evidence... ... can't find anything... ... Will stick to my prejudices unless anyone can disabuse me...

It seems like an arms race. Cars get bigger so people buy even bigger cars to get one up.

I'd like the next trend to be efficiency but not seeing much sign of that as yet.

 

[cougie uk]

Yes a load of electric Mercedes Sprinters, with 95 miles range at best, I believe real world range is around 80 miles, absolutely hopeless for a van, no good for Couriers or Service Technicians, with a miserly 731 kg payload, in my case it would be overloaded, where my current van would be well within load capacity, and I’d spend more time charging it than working, it wouldn’t even get me to my first job tomorrow

So why would Amazon of all people buy 1800 electric vans if they're hopeless ? I'm sure they've trialled first and found them suitable for their needs.

 

[Alex321]

Full circle, because the legislation doesn't stand alone. It needs to be designated before the local authority has the right to issue penalties.

False.

The construction and Use Regulations do stand alone. And the section of the RTA which makes it an offence to breach them makes no mention of "designation".

If you think otherwise, please find the part of either the Construction and Use regulations, or the Road Traffic Act which restricts those clauses to designated places.

Oh, and I don't think it is the local authority that would issue penalties for this, since it is listed in the RTA as an offence.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

False.

The construction and Use Regulations do stand alone. And the section of the RTA which makes it an offence to breach them makes no mention of "designation".

If you think otherwise, please find the part of either the Construction and Use regulations, or the Road Traffic Act which restricts those clauses to designated places.

Oh, and I don't think it is the local authority that would issue penalties for this, since it is listed in the RTA as an offence.

It really isn't false, but I'm bored of pointing you at the information, and you choosing to ignore it.

 

[vickster]

So why would Amazon of all people buy 1800 electric vans if they're hopeless ? I'm sure they've trialled first and found them suitable for their needs.

Different brand/model of van?

 

[ClichéGuevara]

But now we are seeing the switch to EVs - so mpg becomes irrelevant and efficiency more than doubles. So whilst thy might have much more weight, the motor efficiency more than makes up for it. To make them better we need more investment in renewables. Norway is 99% renewable energy so their EVs are the cleanest in the world.

That's somewhat misleading, as Norway has a larger carbon footprint per capita, as they basically fund the hydroelectric schemes using money they gain from selling as much oil as they can, and in a Country where the longest motorway is probably 30 miles, range concerns aren't as much of an issue.

 

[cougie uk]

Different brand/model of van?

Mercedes electric Sprinters.

 

[Alex321]

It really isn't false, but I'm bored of pointing you at the information, and you choosing to ignore it.

You haven't pointed me at the information.

You keep pointing at information about different legislation.

I know perfectly well that the Vehicle emissions legislation requires designation of the area.

But the Construction & Use regulations regulation 98 needs no such designation, and you have provided no evidence whatsoever to show otherwise. That regulation is NOT part of the emissions control legislation - it is in fact about noise control.

[EDIT]
I note that the emissions legislation (only in the explanatory note) does in fact mention regulation 98, but only insofar as it pertains to prevention of exhaust emissions. Which seems a little odd, since regulation 98 doesn't mention exhaust emissions.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

You haven't pointed me at the information.

You keep pointing at information about different legislation.

I know perfectly well that the Vehicle emissions legislation requires designation of the area.

But the Construction & Use regulations regulation 98 needs no such designation, and you have provided no evidence whatsoever to show otherwise. That regulation is NOT part of the emissions control legislation - it is in fact about noise control.

[EDIT]
I note that the emissions legislation (only in the explanatory note) does in fact mention regulation 98, but only insofar as it pertains to prevention of exhaust emissions. Which seems a little odd, since regulation 98 doesn't mention exhaust emissions.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

That's somewhat misleading, as Norway has a larger carbon footprint per capita, as they basically fund the hydroelectric schemes using money they gain from selling as much oil as they can, and in a Country where the longest motorway is probably 30 miles, range concerns aren't as much of an issue.

The Norwegian saintly green halo is a myth - no one really likes to talk about it as they are held up to be a beacon of environmentalism in the dark rest of the world.

Their whole economy has been pretty much built upon oil and gas exports and still is AFAIK.

They are also huge investors in oil and gas production industries elsewhere on the planet.

Kill their fossil fuel production and they have a heck of a set of problems to address (see key revenue, GDP and employment numbers further down the thread).

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...MQFnoECAwQBQ&usg=AOvVaw3rL-xXsjlwDWq2BT8iIK4_

As ever, with this knee jerk switch to EV's and renewables per se, much still needs to be thought through - or at least we need to see more honesty from the key stakeholders.

 

[FishFright]

No I don’t have a very strange view of what happens to either lead acid or Li-ion batteries, you can expect between 500 to 1000 full charges from a Li-ion battery, now if that EV has been a company car doing high mileage with let’s say a range of 180 miles real world driving as an average through winter & summer with heating or a/c on as required , along with lighting and in car entertainment being used, at 100,000 miles it’s had 555 full charges, so it will have started to degrade in available range, so consequently it has to be recharged more often, at lets say 4 years old when the car is returned to lease company and ends up on the used car forecourt you can see at best it’s used over half it’s expected life span, possibly even more, so as the range becomes less and less your using up the remaining lifespan even quicker, now as for complicated drive train on ICE’s , EV’s also have a reduction gear between the traction motor and the wheels, which can and do break, the car, particularly in the 4WD variants won’t have a differential, instead they rely on electronics to slow the drive to the inside wheel when cornering, the speed sensors and control ECU’s can fail, speed sensor bearings in traction motors can fail, resulting in the vehicle driving slowly and feeling like it’s literally shaking itself to bits, as can heat sensors, so the car thinks the motor is overheating, the A/C chopper box (the bit that turns DC battery power to A/C) can fail, generally losing one of the three phases to the motor is most common, it’s not fault free running electrical vehicles, all of the above will lead to huge repair bills, both in time consuming labour and expensive replacement parts

Unlike ICE cars that run for a million miles with barely a service or spare part .

But on a serious note ask someone who runs a scrapyard what the average mileage of a scrapped car is , you will be seriously shocked .

 

[DRM]

Unlike ICE cars that run for a million miles with barely a service or spare part .

But on a serious note ask someone who runs a scrapyard what the average mileage of a scrapped car is , you will be seriously shocked .

Not really, my old Disco was sold on at 240,000 miles, I reckon that if my patch at work stays the same and I keep my current van for the full 5 years, it’ll have around 150,000 miles on it.

 

[Gillstay]

But now we are seeing the switch to EVs - so mpg becomes irrelevant and efficiency more than doubles. So whilst thy might have much more weight, the motor efficiency more than makes up for it. To make them better we need more investment in renewables. Norway is 99% renewable energy so their EVs are the cleanest in the world.

Mpg doesn't really become irrelevant as those cars are still polluting needlessly. If you recall people used to be able 25 years ago to get 65 mpg out of a mini and now how many cars can do that ? So where is the progress. Your correct about countries like Norway but we need to do much better.

 

[Chislenko]

@cougie uk

Green Lane Park & Ride Update.

Cycled past today, circa 3.30.

Six cars parked in the normal bays, two in the electric charging bays although neither of them were plugged in.

Small shuttle bus waiting to ferry people so it appears some people are using the Park And Ride.

However as an EV owner you can educate me here.

Let's say Dave parks his EV there at 8.00 a.m. plugs in and gets the shuttle bus to work.

Does he then have to come back an hour or so later and unplug it?