Are we being forced to go electric?

[MrGrumpy]

Probably still not enough but Ineos at Grangemouth spent rather a lot of cash upgrading their facilities to store more Gas. Agree about the oil, I think it is now widely accepted that we will run out of the need for oil long before we actually run out if oil.

Shale gas was it not at Grangemouth ?

 

[Slick]

Shale gas was it not at Grangemouth ?

Ah, it was.

 

[Slick]

Shale gas was it not at Grangemouth ?

Kinnell for the gas via Cruden Bay and St Fergus, obviously.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Kinnell for the gas via Cruden Bay and St Fergus, obviously.

Just recall that Jim Ratcliffe was threatening to shut the hole thing down if he didn’t get to build his storage facilities and process the shale gas!? SNP gov not happy but what choice would they have !

 

[Slick]

Just recall that Jim Ratcliffe was threatening to shut the hole thing down if he didn’t get to build his storage facilities and process the shale gas!? SNP gov not happy but what choice would they have !

None really but Jim Ratcliffe is definitely a marmite type of guy.

 

[Scottish Scrutineer]

What ever happened to taking personal responsibility? You know, when we were taught as kids to look and listen twice before crossing roads.

Every other f****r these days just needs to blame somebody/something else for their own ineptitude

Also in addition to @MrGrumpy's comment, not every visually impaired person has a guide dog, nor enhanced hearing. Almost all drivers do have the ability to look (even though as cyclists we know they often don't), and could help everyone by reversing into parking spaces so they can drive out with increased visibility

 

[TheDoctor]

Recent 'report' by whoever is now saying that there's currently not enough of the metals around to make all the batteries that the world's electric cars will need.

I assume they're talking about cobalt? That's the usual one.
There's about a billion cars in use worldwide - source
Assuming they're all replaced by EVs, we need a billion battery packs, each of which contains about 18kg of cobalt - source
That's 18 million tonnes of cobalt. Given that current reserves of cobalt are about half that - source - there would seem to be a problem.
However...
All this assumes that :
No car batteries will be recycled, ever. Which isn't the case.
Batteries will continue to need this much cobalt. Which isn't the case.
We won't ever find new supplies of cobalt. Which is absolutely not the case.
Without getting technical, for something to count as a reserve, someone's evaluated pretty precisely how much material is there, in what quality, and has worked out that it can be extracted, processed and sold, using current technology and pricing, and proven that to various legal and financial standards. If you can't do every step of that, it's a resource and doesn't count in the same way. Do your analysis, prove your working and resources become reserves. It's a costly and long winded process, and you don't do it till you need to. That's why we've always had 20 years reserves of oil as long as I can remember, and we probably always will.
The important point is that people tend to use resource and reserve as if they mean the same thing, and the same as 'total amount of stuff there is' - which is again, absolutely not the case
The Earths lithosphere - the layer of rock we live on, the crust - is about 0.003% cobalt, and it weighs about 23 000 *10^15 tonnes.
Do the sums, and there's over a billion times more cobalt than we've actually found. We're not going to run out.

 

[icowden]

I assume they're talking about cobalt? That's the usual one.
There's about a billion cars in use worldwide - source
Assuming they're all replaced by EVs, we need a billion battery packs, each of which contains about 18kg of cobalt - source
That's 18 million tonnes of cobalt. Given that current reserves of cobalt are about half that - source - there would seem to be a problem.
However...
All this assumes that :
No car batteries will be recycled, ever. Which isn't the case.
Batteries will continue to need this much cobalt. Which isn't the case.
We won't ever find new supplies of cobalt. Which is absolutely not the case.
Without getting technical, for something to count as a reserve, someone's evaluated pretty precisely how much material is there, in what quality, and has worked out that it can be extracted, processed and sold, using current technology and pricing, and proven that to various legal and financial standards. If you can't do every step of that, it's a resource and doesn't count in the same way. Do your analysis, prove your working and resources become reserves. It's a costly and long winded process, and you don't do it till you need to. That's why we've always had 20 years reserves of oil as long as I can remember, and we probably always will.
The important point is that people tend to use resource and reserve as if they mean the same thing, and the same as 'total amount of stuff there is' - which is again, absolutely not the case
The Earths lithosphere - the layer of rock we live on, the crust - is about 0.003% cobalt, and it weighs about 23 000 *10^15 tonnes.
Do the sums, and there's over a billion times more cobalt than we've actually found. We're not going to run out.

You missed out that we don't need to replace a billion cars. People will reduce car ownership once Level 5 automation is achieved. That said, there are a couple of houses in this street where they seem to have more cars than people. I have more driveway than car...

 

[fossyant]

Or the fact that cobalt mining 'currently', excusing the ethical/humanitarian issues in DRC, is very toxic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/20/world/china-congo-cobalt.html

Not so green !

People will reduce car ownership once Level 5 automation is achieved - I'm not so sure folk will reduce car ownership - they are a consumer item.

 

[fossyant]

Little interesting fact:-

My BIL works in car insurance, He said there is a fair number of new 'electric car drivers' who crash their cars within the first few days as they aren't used to the power delivery - it's very high compared to ICE. He also said they don't like to insure Teslas, as they 'the cars' attract a particular 'type' of driver, and it's not one type they like to do business with (risk). Not the car's fault though !

 

[MrGrumpy]

You missed out that we don't need to replace a billion cars. People will reduce car ownership once Level 5 automation is achieved. That said, there are a couple of houses in this street where they seem to have more cars than people. I have more driveway than car...

I doubt very much level 5 automation is going to reduce the amount of vehicles on the road !? Not round here not anywhere near me at all !

 

[MrGrumpy]

Little interesting fact:-

My BIL works in car insurance, He said there is a fair number of new 'electric car drivers' who crash their cars within the first few days as they aren't used to the power delivery - it's very high compared to ICE. He also said they don't like to insure Teslas, as they 'the cars' attract a particular 'type' of driver, and it's not one type they like to do business with (risk). Not the car's fault though !

Haha a certain type of driver I can imagine……

 

[Alex321]

People will reduce car ownership once Level 5 automation is achieved.

Why?

What about level 5 automation will reduce the "need" for a car. It will doubtless reduce slightly among those who drive for the "thrill" of it, but those are a very small proportion of car users.

 

[CXRAndy]

Why?

What about level 5 automation will reduce the "need" for a car. It will doubtless reduce slightly among those who drive for the "thrill" of it, but those are a very small proportion of car users.

Because we are all guilty of owning vehicles which spend 99% of the life parked up. Extremely wasteful.

In the future automated driverless vehicles will be called for transport via app.

There will be far less vehicles all pooled waiting to go from one trip onto the next. A bit like taxi's now except driverless.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Because we are all guilty of owning vehicles which spend 99% of the life parked up. Extremely wasteful.

In the future automated driverless vehicles will be called for transport via app.

There will be far less vehicles all pooled waiting to go from one trip onto the next. A bit like taxi's now except driverless

Don’t need any of that just a proper round the clock public transport service . Reliable and value for money. However out with the large towns cities it’s garbage ….