Are we being forced to go electric?

[roubaixtuesday]

As others have said, it takes 50kW of electricity to make 1kg of liquid hydrogen from electrolysis. This is presumably from green electricity. There is very little 'green' Hydrogen currently.

The vast majority of Hydrogen is split from Steam Methane Reforming. A process which releases massive amounts of C02 and is reliant on fossil fuel supplies

Hardly a green solution.

Until green methods that are significantly cheaper to produce Hydrogen it's a non goner.

The ship has sailed and BEV are now the transport for the immediate future.

Like I've said before, it will take a monumental discovery to shipwreck the BEV adoption

Fully agree, just an observation to add that hydrogen in cars is AIUI, used as a compressed gas, not a liquid. Avoiding cryogenics.

Not sure about transport from central generation facilities, is that liquid?

 

[nickyboy]

Just curious why you went for something with an internal combustion engine in it?

About 80% of the mileage we do will be covered by the EV part. For the other 20% the charging infrastructure isn't sufficiently welll developed yet to make these miles as convenient as a conventionally fuelled vehicle. When it is (probably when my 4 year lease expires) I'll get an EV rather than PHEV

 

[midlife]

About 80% of the mileage we do will be covered by the EV part. For the other 20% the charging infrastructure isn't sufficiently welll developed yet to make these miles as convenient as a conventionally fuelled vehicle. When it is (probably when my 4 year lease expires) I'll get an EV rather than PHEV

Tesla model S, BMW jobbies and others do 300 miles plus so why not just get an EV?

 

[CXRAndy]

Tesla model S, BMW jobbies and others do 300 miles plus so why not just get an EV?

So does Model 3 long range, Model Y long range.

There is no inconvenience to running an EV. The only issue for those who can afford is reluctance to change.

For anyone who are driving 200+ mile trips, that is a 4+hour drive. Its not clever or physically good to drive that far and not have a break.

Here is a perfect example why EVs are no barrier to long trips.

My daughter has never driven our Model 3 LR. She wanted to travel to Edinburgh, a trip of around 300 miles from where we live. Having never used the Tesla supercharging network, she drove approx 150 miles to first supercharger, had a break and let the car fill back up to 90%. She then visited a sightseeing spot on the way up, arrived in Edinburgh late afternoon. They popped in Tesla, filled again and went to their hotel for a week. They didn't use the car at all whilst there. On their return, they collected a relative from Newcastle, charged to 95% and completed the return home without needing to charge. They did have small comfort break part way.

As far as I can see that would be the same for a ICE vehicle.

I've made half a dozen 200+ mile trips since Christmas, I've charged from home before and not needed to charge during the trips.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Tesla model S, BMW jobbies and others do 300 miles plus so why not just get an EV?

There are options but some are silly prices .

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/electric/longest-range-electric-cars-ev/

 

[figbat]

Whilst I am an EV advocate, I will concede that unlike ICE cars, with EVs you have to pay extra for more range. An ICE car’s ‘range’ is not really a selling feature so is not a chargeable upgrade. With ICEs though you pay extra for acceleration - EVs generally already have acceleration.

 

[nickyboy]

Tesla model S, BMW jobbies and others do 300 miles plus so why not just get an EV?

The type of vehicle I wanted did not have a high range EV option. Whilst the ranges were OK it would have impacted the 20% longer distance driving mileage we do.
For example we have two Airbnb breaks booked in rural locations. No meaningful charging infrastructure there so I would have to hope to charge at the residence with conventional non 7kwhr source and that is not acceptable.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

I think that rather than the range, for many people, the cost of the vehicle is the limiting factor, and will remain so until the fleet market vehicles become more prominent in the second hand market, which should then push the third, fourth hand and beyond towards the price bracket of most people.

Reading comments on various topics, and I don't think some posters realise that they are among quite a wealthy elite.

 

[midlife]

The type of vehicle I wanted did not have a high range EV option. Whilst the ranges were OK it would have impacted the 20% longer distance driving mileage we do.
For example we have two Airbnb breaks booked in rural locations. No meaningful charging infrastructure there so I would have to hope to charge at the residence with conventional non 7kwhr source and that is not acceptable.

I presume its something like a mitsubishi outlander? Just seems counter intuitive to drive a hybrid on electric for 80% of the time lugging a heavy ICE engine and fuel tank.

 

[icowden]

I think that rather than the range, for many people, the cost of the vehicle is the limiting factor, and will remain so until the fleet market vehicles become more prominent in the second hand market, which should then push the third, fourth hand and beyond towards the price bracket of most people.

Reading comments on various topics, and I don't think some posters realise that they are among quite a wealthy elite.

Nope - I entirely agree with you. They are *very* expensive at the moment unless you want something very small with limited range. The BiL has a Rav4 , and is about to switch to a new car on his PCP plan. Of course Toyota's BEV isn't out yet, and it's unclear just how much more expensive it will be - plus the best part of a grand on the home charger....

 

[CXRAndy]

No meaningful charging infrastructure there so I would have to hope to charge at the residence with conventional non 7kwhr source and that is not acceptable.

Why not use an extension cord. Its around 6-8 miles per hour charge on a 8-10 Amp supply. 10 hours 80 mile range whilst the vehicle is parked.

I charged my Model S with 100kW battery on a tent camp site. We didn't use the car for a couple of days whilst we cycled and visited the local sites. We then went further a field in the car. Parked again for a couple more days and drove home fully charged. All from a tent site.

 

[cyberknight]

I think that rather than the range, for many people, the cost of the vehicle is the limiting factor, and will remain so until the fleet market vehicles become more prominent in the second hand market, which should then push the third, fourth hand and beyond towards the price bracket of most people.

Reading comments on various topics, and I don't think some posters realise that they are among quite a wealthy elite.

indeed 64 plate car here and cant afford to replace it with a newer second hand car let alone an EV

 

[cougie uk]

indeed 64 plate car here and cant afford to replace it with a newer second hand car let alone an EV

We do have a good few years before they won't be allowed to sell new petrol cars though. Plenty of time for EVs to get cheaper and for more to be available second hand.

With advances in self driving cars it might even make sense for some households to be without a car completely and just hire a self driving car in the next ten years or so.

 

[Scottish Scrutineer]

Tail pipe emissions for EVs of course are clean , however hydrogen might be even cleaner still if using renewables ?! All to play for

The Green Energy project at Methil has never produced sufficient hydrogen for the small fleet of dual-fuel vehicles that Fife Council invested in.

Range is decent

However, the residual waste is problematic. There's a load of it sitting rusting away in Rosyth by all accounts

Not to mention hydrogen goes boom... 🔥🔥🔥🔥

Not as readily as petrol. If hydrogen escapes, it rises upwards very rapidly, mixing with the atmosphere. If petrol escapes it flows down, and releases flammable vapour.

 

[figbat]

Not as readily as petrol. If hydrogen escapes, it rises upwards very rapidly, mixing with the atmosphere. If petrol escapes it flows down, and releases flammable vapour.

...and sits as a reservoir of continually-available flammable material until it is all gone, whereas hydrogen will go off with a squeaky pop (chemistry nerds will know) once it has popped it's gone.