Are we being forced to go electric?

[icowden]

...and sits as a reservoir of continually-available flammable material until it is all gone, whereas hydrogen will go off with a squeaky pop (chemistry nerds will know) once it has popped it's gone.

Yeah - but the pop can be quite something...

 

[roubaixtuesday]

...and sits as a reservoir of continually-available flammable material until it is all gone, whereas hydrogen will go off with a squeaky pop (chemistry nerds will know) once it has popped it's gone.

Hydrogen detonates readily, has a very wide flammable range and is so sensitive to ignition it requires special precautions to handle safely, over and above normally flammable substance like petrol. It also needs to be handled in very high pressure systems to compress it sufficient to get the energy density required for storage

A detonation is *not* merely a squeaky pop. Detonation is *far* more damaging than deflagration.

As others posted above, some of the characteristics of petrol are also highly hazardous, but for different reasons.

 

[icowden]

As others posted above, some of the characteristics of petrol are also highly hazardous, but for different reasons.

It's worth saying of course, that BEV batteries can also catch fire, but it seems to be fairly rare and the burn is slow rather than explosive. BEVs don't explode.

The NHSTA in the USA concluded that :

Regarding the risk of electrochemical failure, [this] report concludes that the propensity and severity of fires and explosions from the accidental ignition of flammable electrolytic solvents used in Li-ion battery systems are anticipated to be somewhat comparable to or perhaps slightly less than those for gasoline or diesel vehicular fuels. The overall consequences for Li-ion batteries are expected to be less because of the much smaller amounts of flammable solvent released and burning in a catastrophic failure situation

Useful reader here for those worried:
https://electrek.co/2022/01/12/goverment-data-shows-gasoline-vehicles-are-significantly-more-prone-to-fires-than-evs/

 

[MrGrumpy]

Toyoto are not letting it go it would seem.

https://techcrunch.com/2021/05/10/t...eos-to-explore-a-hydrogen-powered-woven-city/

I also read somewhere else about large plant machinery being powered by fuel cells. Fairly recent development . Batteries just ain’t going to cut the mustard in that respect.

Also read about a trial with Tesco and HGV EVs but range being only 100miles . Much work to do in that respect .

 

[icowden]

Also read about a trial with Tesco and HGV EVs but range being only 100miles . Much work to do in that respect .

Ya think?

Coming soon in 2023ish. 2000 pre-orders (that's about 30 million spondulicks) . Does 300 or 500 miles fully loaded. £140,000 (£110,000 for the 300 mile version) - pays for itself in 2 years.

Scania are also working on electric trucks. And they could be better than diesel...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-56678669

 

[MrGrumpy]

While there have been reservations about the use of electric trucks, there has been a lot of noise about the potential for hydrogen-powered vehicles at the heavier end of the market.

"The key is the price of the hydrogen fuel cell, that price has been going down, but not as fast as the price of batteries," says Dr Liimatainen.

If they come down, they will be quite competitive in the largest trucks, but it all depends on price."

All to play for at the moment !

 

[cougie uk]

While there have been reservations about the use of electric trucks, there has been a lot of noise about the potential for hydrogen-powered vehicles at the heavier end of the market.

"The key is the price of the hydrogen fuel cell, that price has been going down, but not as fast as the price of batteries," says Dr Liimatainen.

If they come down, they will be quite competitive in the largest trucks, but it all depends on price."

This guy you mean ? Might not be entirely independent.



All to play for at the moment !

 

[MrGrumpy]

Just quoting from the article that was posted .

 

[icowden]

Just quoting from the article that was posted .

Yes - we get that. The problem is that as an article it is massively flawed in that it is written by a guy who has a massive vested interest in Hydrogen. It isn't therefore a very good argument as to why hydrogen is viable.

 

[nickyboy]

I presume its something like a mitsubishi outlander? Just seems counter intuitive to drive a hybrid on electric for 80% of the time lugging a heavy ICE engine and fuel tank.

No, an SUV with 4WD capability (we live on a very steep hill in the Peak District so snow can be an issue; we have been snowed in for days when we have 2WD vehicles). The only EV that met my spec was the Audi Etron which was more than I wanted to pay. So best option was Mercedes GLC. As mentioned, as a PHEV it also gets around the range and recharging constraints when we go away somewhere. Yes it costs me money to lug around the ICE engine (not so much the tank as I'll keep it v low on diesel most of the time) but run costs per mile are small so it's not a big cost

 

[MrGrumpy]

Saw this meme it about sums up the holier than thou views of EV owners .





All in jest ladies and gents

 

[BrumJim]

Saw this meme it about sums up the holier than thou views of EV owners .



View attachment 629140

All in jest ladies and gents

Also utterly wrong:

https://grid.iamkate.com/

Currently just 3% generated by coal.

 

[cougie uk]

No, an SUV with 4WD capability (we live on a very steep hill in the Peak District so snow can be an issue; we have been snowed in for days when we have 2WD vehicles). The only EV that met my spec was the Audi Etron which was more than I wanted to pay. So best option was Mercedes GLC. As mentioned, as a PHEV it also gets around the range and recharging constraints when we go away somewhere. Yes it costs me money to lug around the ICE engine (not so much the tank as I'll keep it v low on diesel most of the time) but run costs per mile are small so it's not a big cost

Do you use winter tyres ? I keep seeing that it makes a huge difference but we rarely get snow on the coast so I've never invested.

 

[Alex321]

Do you use winter tyres ? I keep seeing that it makes a huge difference but we rarely get snow on the coast so I've never invested.

I always put winter tyres on my cars when I lived in the Brecon Beacons, and yes they do make a huge difference.

It really brought it home to me one day when we had far too much snow to be able to get out even with those tyres (we lived at the bottom of a steep dead-end hill that never got ploughed, but had a grit bunker at the top which we could use). I spent the morning shovelling and gritting to get it semi-clear, then drove my car up the hill as if there were no snow at all. Then tried my wife's car (without winter tyres), and while I managed to get it up, it was slithering all over the place, and was very much only just making it up the hill.

 

[gzoom]

Yes - we get that. The problem is that as an article it is massively flawed in that it is written by a guy who has a massive vested interest in Hydrogen. It isn't therefore a very good argument as to why hydrogen is viable.

For a product to be 'viable' it actually has to be close to scalable in the real word, so that pretty much excludes anything that has the word 'hydrogen' in it apart from taking about the sun .