Are we being forced to go electric?

[Deleted User]

I've never opened the bonnet of my Renault Scenic to have a listen.

View attachment 636324
https://www.harley-davidson.com/gb/en/motorcycles/2021/livewire.html

Not being funny but the fact you drive a Renault scenic suggests you won't be interested in cars other than to provide transport, again suggesting an electric Harley and thinking it's the speed that is somehow impressive proves you would never understand what I'm talking about.

It's of no consequence what I see in a car/bike but it's interesting (although obvious really) that people who want electric cars seem to have no real interest in what a car is.

Classic cars for example, hold any interest to you?

 

[nickyboy]

Just had my Zappi installed. Only another 7 months until I have a car to plug into it!!

Talk to me about it. Ordered the car end September and I haven't even got a delivery date yet. At least every month I'm saving the lease cost I guess

 

[MrGrumpy]

Do any of you EV drivers think these cars have no soul or character?

I mean, opening the bonnet of a big engined motor or listening to the growl of a powerful car is surely important?

The power delivery of certain engine configurations for example being different to others etc.

If cars are just an AtoB experience to people then I guess go for the greenest thing out there but I personally think the day the only vehicles available are electric will be a sad one.

We haven't even mentioned Motorcycles!

I do !! Been their way back in this thread ! Synthetic fuel will hopefully be a saviour in keeping the petrol engines running for a long time .

 

[gzoom]

Do any of you EV drivers think these cars have no soul or character?

Use to spend ££££ on making my old combustion cars sound 'nice', don't miss it one bit.

Now when I come across a combustion car making a racket I just think, all that noise and where is performance


View: https://youtu.be/j-uf9hf0jBk

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Not being funny but the fact you drive a Renault scenic suggests you won't be interested in cars other than to provide transport, again suggesting an electric Harley and thinking it's the speed that is somehow impressive proves you would never understand what I'm talking about.

It's of no consequence what I see in a car/bike but it's interesting (although obvious really) that people who want electric cars seem to have no real interest in what a car is.

Classic cars for example, hold any interest to you?

Not being funny but you could write the exact same stuff about steam engines, and it hasn't stopped them becoming museum pieces.

 

[BrumJim]

Do any of you EV drivers think these cars have no soul or character?

I mean, opening the bonnet of a big engined motor or listening to the growl of a powerful car is surely important?

The power delivery of certain engine configurations for example being different to others etc.

If cars are just an AtoB experience to people then I guess go for the greenest thing out there but I personally think the day the only vehicles available are electric will be a sad one.

We haven't even mentioned Motorcycles!

I think that cars no longer have the soul or character that they had when I was young.

OK, by soul or character, I mean being unreliable, difficult to drive, inadequately designed, etc, etc.

I'm a petrol head. My weekly read was Autocar, taking care to grab it when it dropped through the letter box before my Dad came home. I have spent far too much of my life going round car museums and car shows. Before family commitments arrived I got the car of my dreams (OK, the one within my budget), would love to own a Jaguar XK, have been given a ride in a Ferrari 348, and drove an Aston Martin on a driving day as a birthday present. In terms of different power configurations, I would love to hear the famous V16 1.5l BRM F1 engine for real, and the sound of an old-school F1 engine at full chat gets the hair on the back of my neck standing up.

But I have an electric car that I love. The power delivery makes much more sense than an IC car. I love that my brake pedal recharges the battery rather than heats up a block of metal. And in the same way that steam engines give a very audible and visual visceral impact on the observer, as ways of getting large numbers of people across the country efficiently they are an engineer's worst nightmare. Dangerous, inefficient and with very poor delivery of tractive effort, they are everything a train traction system should not be.

Will I miss ICE cars? I'll miss the joy of driving around on days like today with bright sunshine but cold temperatures with the windows wide open and the fan on full, blasting tons of waste heat into the car so I don't freeze. But why is there so much waste heat anyway? I shall miss visiting fuel stations, and standing in a line with a cross section of society, looking at the lines of sweets and crisps conveniently located just where I stop and wait. I shall be nostalgic, but I won't miss the dirt and noise, and certainly won't miss the polution on my lungs and buildings, and the effect on the health of those around me.

 

[figbat]

Do any of you EV drivers think these cars have no soul or character?

I mean, opening the bonnet of a big engined motor or listening to the growl of a powerful car is surely important?

The power delivery of certain engine configurations for example being different to others etc.

If cars are just an AtoB experience to people then I guess go for the greenest thing out there but I personally think the day the only vehicles available are electric will be a sad one.

We haven't even mentioned Motorcycles!

Funny isn’t it, that the characteristics of an engine that give it “character” are the very inefficiencies and compromises that EVs overcome. It’s like we celebrate failures.

“They sound great” - noise is a wasted energy that has to be muffled and controlled.
”You can’t beat a manual gearbox” - a clutch is required because an engine has to idle (wasting energy) and a gearbox is needed because and engine has such a limited rev range and torque curve.

Engines are such a flawed design when considering efficiency - a 4-stroke engine spends more than 75% of the time trying to slow down, they rarely top 40% thermal efficiency, there is a complicated drivetrain to convert the crankshaft speed to useful motion - even steam engines are better in this regard. But by gawd do we luv ‘em!

 

[Deleted User]

Not being funny but you could write the exact same stuff about steam engines, and it hasn't stopped them becoming museum pieces.

Or old fashioned push bikes but some on here like those?

 

[icowden]

Not being funny but the fact you drive a Renault scenic suggests you won't be interested in cars other than to provide transport, again suggesting an electric Harley and thinking it's the speed that is somehow impressive proves you would never understand what I'm talking about.

The fact that I drive a Renault scenic suggests that I have a family who have not yet left home.

Personally one of the most enjoyable things I have done (several times) is a track day in a single seater. In fact I have another one at Silverstone that I need to book as Covid delayed it quite considerably. But no, I don't yearn to own a Porsche, Lamborghini or Ferrari - although I've had fun driving two of those on a track day. All of those cars I'd prefer to drive fast than listen to the engine.

I'll admit I know nothing about motorbikes. That's my other brother in law's thing - but he is a specialist mechanic. I do know that Harley Davidson are a famous brand, and that they have made an electric motorbike.

They aren't the only brand to have done so.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/...ic-motorbikes-sale-now-and-ones-worth-waiting

You asked about motorbikes - you can go electric.

 

[icowden]

Funny isn’t it, that the characteristics of an engine that give it “character” are the very inefficiencies and compromises that EVs overcome. It’s like we celebrate failures.

Indeed. I did once find an article written from the point of view of an ICE inventor in an EV world trying to explain to an investor why a combustion engine would be great - along the line of " yes - then we want to put a tank full of explosive liquid at the bottom. Why? well to propel the car via a series of controlled explosions... what do you mean it sounds dangerous..."

 

[CXRAndy]

I have arranged an appointment with the DNO to assess what capacity I can have if I feed into the network.

If its not sufficient I may consider an off grid only solar.

However from my initial research the latest Inverter systems can actually limit the amount of power thats fed back to grid so pretty much negating DNO concerns re over capacity

 

[MrGrumpy]

Indeed. I did once find an article written from the point of view of an ICE inventor in an EV world trying to explain to an investor why a combustion engine would be great - along the line of " yes - then we want to put a tank full of explosive liquid at the bottom. Why? well to propel the car via a series of controlled explosions... what do you mean it sounds dangerous..."

Funny nobody questioned any of this until fairly recently. Now all of sudden it’s evil ? Everyone driving around in their EVs patting themselves in the back , saving the environment ! Utter bollocks . My sister and bro in law came over with the family at the weekend. My Lads 21st . Tesla nowhere to be seen. Had to bring the dirty diesel instead as not enough room for 5 and a dog ! That’s what happens when you get sucked into buying the wrong car !

 

[Alex321]

Funny nobody questioned any of this until fairly recently. Now all of sudden it’s evil ? Everyone driving around in their EVs patting themselves in the back , saving the environment ! Utter bollocks .

Only bollocks while the electricity generation in this country relies on fossil fuels.

And it really isn't "all of a sudden" either, it has been moving that way for years, ever since the realisation of the effect burning fossil fuels was having on the environment.

My sister and bro in law came over with the family at the weekend. My Lads 21st . Tesla nowhere to be seen. Had to bring the dirty diesel instead as not enough room for 5 and a dog ! That’s what happens when you get sucked into buying the wrong car !

True but not relevant to any debate about ICE vs EV.

It isn't wrong because of the motive power, but because of the size of car.

 

[oldwheels]

It isn't your current supply that matters, it is how much space you have for the array of PV panels.

50kW will need much more space than any normal house will have on the roof.

The panels do not need to be on the roof as I have seen several mainly around Aberdeen with ground based panels. Need a big enough clear garden space obviously.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Only bollocks while the electricity generation in this country relies on fossil fuels.

And it really isn't "all of a sudden" either, it has been moving that way for years, ever since the realisation of the effect burning fossil fuels was having on the environment.

EVs are far from environmentally friendly as has been repeated several times in this thread early on.

True but not relevant to any debate about ICE vs EV.

It isn't wrong because of the motive power, but because of the size of car.

That’s true but when you get hooked in by the sales patter you can make the wrong choices.