I may be reading it wrong or remembering it wrong, but I think 2030 is the cut off date for petrol/desal cars. So, service stations will be charging stations long before that date.
Are we being forced to go electric?
- Thread starter gavroche
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I may be reading it wrong or remembering it wrong, but I think 2030 is the cut off date for petrol/desal cars. So, service stations will be charging stations long before that date.
figbat
Slippery scientist
- Location
- South Oxfordshire, UK
The OP appeared to suggest that fuel prices are going up as a way to "force" people into EVs. The reality is that the oil price has rocketed in the last year through a combination of factors, and the recent run on the fuel stations driven by media scaremongering has given suppliers an opportunity to capitalise. Fuel duty is fixed per litre although VAT increases with purchase price. Given the three-fold increase in oil prices you can see how little the fuel price is driven by input costs, since the overall increase is nothing like that. Let's not forget that gas prices are also high, which is driving electricity prices up too. This is a global economy situation, not some clandestine conspiracy to sell more EVs.
Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
That is the cut off date for the sale of new wholly IC cars. Existing ones on the road will still be usable, and hybrids will still be allowed to be sold new until 2035. The aim is to have all cars & vans on the road be zero tailpipe emission by 2050.
But as you say, we can expect filling stations to move away from stocking petrol & diesel for cars & vans well before that final 2050 date.
How many will go out of business, vs how many will become charging stations, remains to be seen, but I would personally expect most to go out of business, on the basis that most people will charge their cars at home or the office, or will want to charge them somewhere they can do something else while it is charging (such as having a meal or doing some shopping).
Dogtrousers
Kilometre nibbler
This just popped up on my twitter and it seems relevant so I'll throw it in.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwi...c-car-revolution-and-embed-chinas-lead-report
https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwi...c-car-revolution-and-embed-chinas-lead-report
The electric car revolution will stall in the West if supplies of crucial battery elements like lithium fail to keep up with the forecast huge increase in demand. This will drive battery prices higher, decimate profit margins, and the coveted $100 per kWh battery, which would have signaled the arrival of affordable green vehicles, will remain on the launch pad.
“Western weaknesses in lithium-ion supply chains will slow electric vehicle adoption and demonstrate China’s dominance of the EV (electric vehicle) market,” according to a report from GlobalData. a leading data and analytics company.
This kind of pressure might also delay Tesla’s long promised “affordable” $25,000 electric car.
figbat
Slippery scientist
- Location
- South Oxfordshire, UK
Why would or should petrol stations become charging stations? You go to a petrol station because they have a bulk stock of a dangerous product and can dispense it safely in small quantities. You can get electricity in other ways without needing to go to a place that has only this purpose. I don't go to a special place to charge my phone, or drills, or anything else. Yes, scale is different but if charging takes so much longer than refuelling then I want to be doing something else whilst it's happening. Charging has to become a secondary objective of going somewhere - like shopping, eating out, cinema, whatever. I don't want to have to go to a centralised charging station and then make use of whatever facilities they have there whilst I wait.
Pale Rider
Legendary Member
I don't want to get into a game of genuine need top trumps, but the only person entitled to lecture others on car use is the person who does without one.
Which, I'm guessing, disqualifies about 99% of contributors to this thread.
IanSmithCSE
Guru
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- Worcester, Worcestershire
I can see this working for a while, as long as it is a new idea or the only option ....
In the mid 1990s I used to rent a car as there was hire company 10 minutes walk away and a Ford dealer that did hires even closer, but I moved to owning one for cost and time reasons.
The £500, or whatever the hire company chooses, accident damage that they will reserve on your credit card, assuming that you have one to cover a broken wing mirror etc. If you have a 3 year old car you may very well get a new mirror off eBay and fit it yourself, the hire company may charge you the main dealer parts and labour rate, it's the same for that scratch that you didn't notice.
Even if these costs get built into the standard hire price but as they haven't been on ICE hire cars why would they on EVs, you still have to get to/from the collection/return point, fine for me I can cycle but I am not 75 with two dodgy hips.
2050, that's no good we'll all be toast by then.
figbat
Slippery scientist
- Location
- South Oxfordshire, UK
Indeed. I have continuously owned at least one car for 33 years; I know no different. Some good friends of ours are the same age and approximate social standing as my wife and I, a married couple with a child at secondary school, both with jobs that entail domestic and international travel, with elderly and ill relatives and neither has a driving licence. They appear to have managed so far.
Dogtrousers
Kilometre nibbler
Like Zip cars (but all electric).
I was all set to move over to Zip car use when it became clear that my car was headed for the knacker's yard.
It was only the fact that someone I know happened to have a little city runaround car up for sale that saved me from being able to lecture people on how well I was doing without a car.
byegad
Legendary Member
- Location
- NE England
Back in the 50s buses and trains were indeed a viable means of transport. You could get a bus from our house into town for 2d (remember them?), and parking was 6d, but only if you couldn't park on the street, which most did, for free. The relative cost of owning a car to go shopping was much more then than now in terms of income. Only the well off could buy a car.
As fewer people can afford to drive in the future I'd hope the cost and frequency of public transport will again make it viable choices for many. I've been retired 15 years, but in my working life I lived in a village and always needed a car or motorbike to get to work, until in my last two jobs, cycling became a viable choice.
Cycleops
Legendary Member
- Location
- Accra, Ghana
But they had camels and donkeys back then
Ming the Merciless
There is no mercy
- Location
- Inside my skull
But they had camels and donkeys back then
Still do in Yorkshire
There was nothing worse back in the day than coming out to go to work on a cold morning and finding your camel dying off if you applied too much choke.But they had camels and donkeys back then
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