Are we being forced to go electric?

[midlife]

That’s a rip off you may as well buy one if you don’t have company or NHS lease.

Is your £270 a month Polestar salary sacrifice?

 

[Milzy]

Is your £270 a month Polestar salary sacrifice?

Yeah it’s about £125 more on the other level.

 

[Alex321]

But you've paid money for 3 years with no asset to show for it.

His point was that you would be in very close to the same position if you had bought new then sold after three years. The difference between what you pay new and what you can sell for after three years isn't far off what you would have paid for the lease over that period.

 

[midlife]

Yeah it’s about £125 more on the other level.

NHS salary sacrifice reduces my pension and at my age I'd rather have the £135 quid a month as pension for the rest of my life lol

 

[vickster]

So pedantic obviously it’s for the year.

Not really as you said per month in your post…which would be £3240 for the year

 

[Alex321]

We have 3 diesel genset farms within 2 miles of our house .... barely a day goes by without the roar of them starting up ... as i cycle north of Doncaster the steam rising from the most heavily subsidised power plant on the planet, DRAX, is seen most days.
The “Green “ power station in the heart of Rotherham has a constant stream of bulk carriers lined up with wood pellets from the Americas and Lithuania, shipped by ships burning bunker fuel and transported by diesel trucks ....

All reasonable points.

Green energy is the ultimate “Emperors new clothes” falsehood ....

But this has nothing to do with those points. I have no idea why anybody would call that Rotherham power station "green". No power source that relies on burning fuel is "green" even if what is being burned is "renewable".

 

[Alex321]

It's a trick question isn't it? If I was on my bike I wouldn't be stuck in a line of traffic, that's one of the beauties of them, when was the last time you went out, maybe you should ditch your EV & use your bike once in a while.

And perhaps you should answer the clear and obvious intent of the question rather than nitpicking an irrelevance to deflect from the point.

Whether you are "stuck" in the sense of not moving, or whether you are cycling past them makes no difference to the point, which was about which air you would rather be breathing.

 

[Alex321]

So my conclusions so far in this debate.

Those with an EV can't see the viewpoint of those without.

Those with an EV think we all live within easy commuting distance of our place of work.

Those with an EV have not considered that some people do not have off street parking and the ability to charge from home.

Those with an EV have not considered that some people may live on the tenth floor of a block of flats with the same problem as those in the last category.

Those with an EV (as an example was quoted earlier) think £56,500 is the price of a mass market car.

And to me this is the point that is being missed.

As @ClicheGuevara and others keep trying to point out at this point in time an EV is not for the poor, in pretty much the same way when cars were first made. Those able to afford them could and eventually as they became more affordable they came within the reach of the less well off.

However, this did not happen overnight.

I don't think anybody here with an EV has suggested any of those things, so I have no idea where you get your "conclusions" from, except maybe the first.
BTW, I don't have an EV, but will be seriously looking at one the next time we change either of our cars - provided the price of 2nd hand ones is reasonable by that time ( which for us means under £10K).

 

[Alex321]

A main residence generating costs is technically a liability not an asset.

No it isn't, because it has a value for which you can sell it (and that will usually be far more than the maintenance costs have been unless you have been unlucky regarding just when you buy and sell).

 

[DRM]

We have 3 diesel genset farms within 2 miles of our house .... barely a day goes by without the roar of them starting up ... as i cycle north of Doncaster the steam rising from the most heavily subsidised power plant on the planet, DRAX, is seen most days.
The “Green “ power station in the heart of Rotherham has a constant stream of bulk carriers lined up with wood pellets from the Americas and Lithuania, shipped by ships burning bunker fuel and transported by diesel trucks ....
Green energy is the ultimate “Emperors new clothes” falsehood ....

And don’t forget Ferrybridge is doing the same, except they now have a second power station on site burning biomass, all brought in by HGV’s

 

[SpokeyDokey]

No it isn't, because it has a value for which you can sell it (and that will usually be far more than the maintenance costs have been unless you have been unlucky regarding just when you buy and sell).

I prefer the Rich Dad Poor Dad definition. it's worth a Google and there are plenty of arguments either way.

An asset is something that produces an income - our home produces no income (and worse than that it comes with costs) so is a liability.

Our various investments produce a passive income and are our real assets.

We've certainly got a fair chunk of wealth tied up in our (mortgage free) property but it does nothing for us from an income perspective. This is one of the reasons why we resisted buying the biggest and most expensive house that we could have afforded back in the 90's (when we purchased the house that we live in now).

 

[gzoom]

As @ClicheGuevara and others keep trying to point out at this point in time an EV is not for the poor

Actually one of my biggest 'worries' about EVs is the potential (and reality) of worsening the gap between those who have and those who haven't in society interms of personal transportation.

We live in unprecedented times of increased energy costs and fuel costs right?? Here is my total house hold bills including doing roughly 1400 miles in our EV in the last months........£44 all in, for home gas, electricity, EV charging including standing charge.

Someone mentioned about lease/purchase costs etc, well looking at used values we can probably get £60k for our car today, we paid £71k back in 2017, so thats roughly £120/month depreciation (no loan taken).

As for running costs, essentially no/little fuel costs, no annual service (I've paid for one service in 4 years), and no VED.

So the combined depreciation and running costs of our overly massive, unnecessary fast, gadget laden EV doing 10k/miles per hear is almost certainly less than even a used diesel people carrier.

But the only reason we can access this level of 'cheap' yet very comfortable motoring is because we had/have the means to spend stupid ££££ on a car.......But is it our 'fault' society is setup to enable those who have to have more?? At least I pay my taxes, if you the 'accounting' advice on the Tesla forums from a few years ago, its clear many many people taking home obscene amounts of £££££ pay virtually no tax, quite legally too - just see our former chancellor.....

However given the recent 'concern' the head of the FBI and Mi5 have about the C word, ensuring the status quo of how wealth is gathered and grown in our society is a matter of national security and goes far beyond if EVs are just toys for rich versus a serious means of affordable personal transportation.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

The thread has died, there is nothing useful coming out of it, time to put it on ignore

 

[Illaveago]

There was an interesting bit on the Beeb 6 o'clock news the other night .
They showed a graph of of the revenue expected by the government from tax and fuel duty with a blue line which ran horizontal . The actual income raised was in red and plummeted to the bottom . It seems that at some point the governments are going to have to charge EV's in a similar way to combustion engined vehicles to keep the country running .

 

[DRM]

It was mentioned further up about the rising number of new EV registrations, I strongly suspect that the vast majority of these, particularly Tesla models are leased company cars, not private purchases, due to the huge cost of them, obviously they will end up on the used car forecourt’s in 3 to 5 years time,but if the residual value is strong, they’re still going to be a pipe dream for most people