Are we being forced to go electric?

[roubaixtuesday]

That depends on where you start and finish the energy chain.

No, however you define that, they're still more efficient.

 

[figbat]

I can't see how this can be true, I paid £6,500 for our car 8 years ago, it's still worth £2,000 so over the 8 years it's cost me £4,000 if I'd leased at £400 per month, £4,800 a year, total cost £38,400 with no asset.

You wouldn’t be paying £400/month for 8 years for a car worth £6,500. They would look at the predicted depreciation, look at the contract length, divide it up, add a bit of interest and charge you that per month.

 

[icowden]

But you've paid money for 3 years with no asset to show for it.

Yep. I spent 12 years renting accommodation before I could afford a house. Now that I have a house I have to spend a lot of time and money on maintenance. The plus side is that I am now putting money into an asset. The negative side is that I have to spend a lot of time looking after that asset.

I bought my car from new 10 years ago. I have spent a lot of money on maintenance, insurance, MOTs, services etc. I spent £6000 as a down payment and then spent 5 years paying for the remaining balance monthly and invested more than the £15,000 that the car cost due to interest etc. I now own the car. It is worth around £3,000. The upholstery is splitting, many of the plastic fittings have broken, it squeaks like nobodies business and can't handle speed bumps very well. It still works.

My new car is leased (via my company) I no longer have to spend money on maintenance, insurance, MOTs, Services etc. So yes, I won't have an asset, but I can change that car in 4 years for a different new car. I just have to pay the lease costs.

 

[cougie uk]

We have 3 diesel genset farms within 2 miles of our house .... barely a day goes by without the roar of them starting up ... as i cycle north of Doncaster the steam rising from the most heavily subsidised power plant on the planet, DRAX, is seen most days.
The “Green “ power station in the heart of Rotherham has a constant stream of bulk carriers lined up with wood pellets from the Americas and Lithuania, shipped by ships burning bunker fuel and transported by diesel trucks ....
Green energy is the ultimate “Emperors new clothes” falsehood ....

Have you heard of solar and wind power ? I'd not be calling that plant green at all.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

No, however you define that, they're still more efficient.

There are many experts that would have a long debate with you on that. Me? I'm just happy to let you believe which version you like, as it's pretty meaningless for here.

 

[cougie uk]

Hardly doing nothing. We work from home or use public transport / bikes for most of our journeys. We use more efficient food delivery than joining the masses in their steel boxes to travel 20 minutes and travel to the supermarket. We're insulating the house above recommended levels. Plus we've got solar panels that right now supplies all our daylight hours electricity needs and then some.

As for pixie dust. Is that what you call hydrogen cells? Not quite there but it's got a similar distribution system as petrol and diesel. Its fill and go without a long wait. It's cleaner than battery powered EVs too. It's not ready but I think we're not far off. AIUI there's a few pilot scale hydrogen generating sites. Even read something about it being a bye product of some other industry. Also, it won't need a completely new distribution network like EVs and their charging site.

Hydrogen might be a by product of a few processes but that's not enough to fill a nations cars.

You use more electric to create the hydrogen to fill a car to drive it x miles than you could otherwise just charge the car with.

And then you have to transport the hydrogen around the nation.

EV - charge at any plug. Its so simple. Start the day off with your full tank.

 

[Milzy]

What device you have just posted on this forum will have lithium power.

50% of UK energy is from renewable sources.

I suggest you go around your home total up all the lithium based energy devices. I bet you weren't concerned upto the point of objecting to the smug EV owners

See post below yours.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

Hydrogen might be a by product of a few processes but that's not enough to fill a nations cars.

You use more electric to create the hydrogen to fill a car to drive it x miles than you could otherwise just charge the car with.

And then you have to transport the hydrogen around the nation.

EV - charge at any plug. Its so simple. Start the day off with your full tank.

1. They have invested millions into checking the existing gas pipeline, which prior to natural gas, carried towns gas, which is around 50% hydrogen.
2. They have invested heavily in on site production, using renewable energy produced at times it's not needed. That throws in massive issues on how 'efficiency' is calculated.

 

[FishFright]

But you've paid money for 3 years with no asset to show for it.

Yes, because its a lease.

 

[Landsurfer]

Have you heard of solar and wind power ? I'd not be calling that plant green at all.

Solar panels manufactured in China, India and Vietnam using Brown coal for power production. Just what is the carbon footprint of a single off shore wind turbine ???
Answers on a postcard please. ( post card must be manufactured from recycled products using power from hamsters in wheels and assembled by Rotherham Taxi Drivers ....).

 

[Deleted member 26715]

assembled by Rotherham Taxi Drivers ....).

How will it be decontamintaed?

 

[Deleted member 26715]

I bought my car from new 10 years ago. I have spent a lot of money on maintenance, insurance, MOTs, services etc. I spent £6000 as a down payment and then spent 5 years paying for the remaining balance monthly and invested more than the £15,000 that the car cost due to interest etc. I now own the car. It is worth around £3,000. The upholstery is splitting, many of the plastic fittings have broken, it squeaks like nobodies business and can't handle speed bumps very well. It still works.

You've been robbed or you drive with no regards to mechanical parts, not sure how you can say you spent a lot of money on maintenance yet all those things are wrong with it, our 15 year old car is still in good condition, even though it now has over 145K on it. There are no ripped seats, the aircon still works, the only fly in the ointment is somebody whilst in a car park has put something on the bonnet & then dragged it off, in our 8 years of ownership it's only had an alternator, 4 new tyres, a full set of discs & pads & the usual oil & filter changes. It still does 55mpg on a run & 48mpg around the village & town.

We have reduced our milage from 20K a year across 2 cars to under 6K in 1, but it still does not make either economic or environmental sense to go down the EV route, assuming we could afford it which we can't so in some ways the question is mute

 

[Deleted member 26715]

When you are on your bike would you rather be stuck in a slow moving line of:

1. Diesel fuelled cars and vans
2. Petrol fuelled cars and vans
3. Electric cars and vans

It's a trick question isn't it? If I was on my bike I wouldn't be stuck in a line of traffic, that's one of the beauties of them, when was the last time you went out, maybe you should ditch your EV & use your bike once in a while.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

You've been robbed or you drive with no regards to mechanical parts, not sure how you can say you spent a lot of money on maintenance yet all those things are wrong with it, our 15 year old car is still in good condition, even though it now has over 145K on it. There are no ripped seats, the aircon still works, the only fly in the ointment is somebody whilst in a car park has put something on the bonnet & then dragged it off, in our 8 years of ownership it's only had an alternator, 4 new tyres, a full set of discs & pads & the usual oil & filter changes. It still does 55mpg on a run & 48mpg around the village & town.

We have reduced our milage from 20K a year across 2 cars to under 6K in 1, but it still does not make either economic or environmental sense to go down the EV route, assuming we could afford it which we can't so in some ways the question is mute

And if you did change to EV, there's every likelihood someone else would then still be driving your current one, so a net increase overall.

 

[icowden]

It's a trick question isn't it? If I was on my bike I wouldn't be stuck in a line of traffic, that's one of the beauties of them, when was the last time you went out, maybe you should ditch your EV & use your bike once in a while.

Wow. You must have some amazing roads by you.

Sadly I have some roads where there are loads of cars and lorries going past, and some that are narrow and have traffic lights so I have to sit behind vehicles - especially if with a group. Are you one of those suicidal cyclists that cuts between lorries and busses and runs red lights or do you just live somewhere really really quiet?