Argument with a polis

[addictfreak]

Very easy to condem the police, when we only have one view on the incident.

 

[Paul J]

There is always one party going to feel agrieved to the decision made. Get over it as your actions where no better than the driver of the car.

 

[mcshroom]

Hitting the wing mirror is going to do nothing to help matters. There are a few places where hitting a car can be justified, such as when I saw Tigerbiten whacking the bottom of a car door when it went to pull in on him in the trike, but in general what is folding in a wing mirror going to do other than be aggressive?

As for the policing, it is concerning that they paid no attention to the b ad driving, but were they behind you when this happened or did they only see your retaliation?

As a bit of an aside I always ask for a police officer's badge number before talking to them - a bit of a South Yorkshire hangover from the miners' strike but it does allow you to identify an officer in the (usually unlikely) event that you later want to complain about something.

 

[mickle]

Her driving did not cause the OP to commit the (attempted) criminal damage.

Her driving is no defence - the attack on the mirror is done AFTER the bad driving.

Driver was in wrong for bad driving

OP was in wrong for his attack on car.

The driving does not excuse the later act

Attack? Whacking a car door mirror with my bare hand hardly constitutes an 'attack'. Particularly a door mirror which is designed to fold. It amounts to the same as accusing a postman of attacking a door knocker. Or did you not read the bit where I pointed out that there was no damage?

 

[mickle]

.... what is folding in a wing mirror going to do other than be aggressive?

Aggressive? Who gives a toss? The old bint nearly took me out. If what I saw was typical of her driving she shouldn't be on the road. Driving around posing danger through incompetence is 'aggressive'. The only threat I pose is leaving fingerprints on door mirrors.

 

[ufkacbln]

I would never "strike a car" however on a few occasions I have had to "fend myself off" the approaching vehicle.

This could easily be misinterpreted as an aggressive act when it is purely a reasonable way of avoiding an impact.

 

[Dan B]

in general what is folding in a wing mirror going to do other than be aggressive?

In general in shmeneral. In this particular case it caused the driver to get out of her car, apologise and admit fault to the police

And criminal damage? How can there be if there is no damage?

 

[daddyshambles]

Picture the scene. I, on enormous dirty great cargo bike, riding happily along in a roadside cyclelane. Old Poogeot 306 first overtakes way too close and then nips in to a parking space in just front of me. Obviously I smack the door mirror with my hand as I pass.

All fine and dandy, point made and on I go. But no sooner have I hit it than I hear a polis siren woop behind me and I get the whole Starsky & Hutch treatment, lights on and squeezed to the kerb. Wait over there he says, since we are at a pinch point. So I wheel the beast on to the pavement and wait while he parks up.

Now. My mum's family were high up ones in Scotland and I was brung up to respect them. In the past I would have been all; 'Yes officer. No officer. Sorry officer. Moment of anger officer. Won't happen again officer'. And would have been sent on my way with no more than a flea in my ear.

Plod; 'What did you do that for?
Me; 'She overtook too closely and then cut dangerously in front of me. Didn't you see?
Plod; Yes I saw, but that's no reason to damage someone's car'.
Me; I didn't damage her car. Modern door morrors are designed to flip back when they are hit, a feature which protects them from damage'.
Plod; 'But you could have damaged her car and then you'd be facing a charge of criminal damage'
Me; 'I didn't damage her car'.
Plod; Yes you did'.
Me; I didn't damage her car.
Plod; You don't know that'.
Me; 'Yes I do'.

At which point another polis car stops with his lights flashing and approaches. The litle old lady has also approached and butts in.
Lady; 'Please don't arrest him officer it was my fault'
Plod; 'Thank you madam, please go and get back in your car I'll be over to talk to you in a moment'
Lady; Yes but I just don't want him getting into trouble, it was my fault that his bike hit my car'
Me; 'Thanks', ~smiles~. And she wanders off. original polis hands me on to incoming polis and wanders off after lady.
New polis; 'What happened?
Me; 'I smacked her door mirror with my hand'.

There follows a conversation identical to the one I had with Plod. Which ends; 'Those mirrors can cost £25 you know'
Me; 'Yes I know'. I drive a car.

By this time I'm getting riled. There has been no discussion of the threat of danger posed to me by her incompetent driving and so I launch into a softy spoken tirade. I say; My family and I ride up and down this road every single day, and every single day some muppet in a car threatens our safety. You lot don't appear to be making road safety for vulnerable road users a priority. The polis in York have even publicly stated that they will not enforce the newly installed 20mph zone (about 200 yards back in the direction I came). So I will not be changing my habits. If cars continue to threaten my safety I'll continue to knock on their windows and bash their door mirrors.

Plod has returned by now, New polis leaves. Plod says; 'There are better ways of dealing with situations like this you know'.
Me; 'Like what for example?'
Plod; 'The Station is just here, you could record their registration numbers and report them.
Me; 'If I recored every incident I could be here three or four times a day. The vast majority of incidents don't occur right outside the Station. And I have neither the time nor the inclination. I'm happy to keep doing what I'm doing, and if my actions end me up in court I'll take my chances. But frankly I'm amazed that you seem much more concerned about criminal damage that did not occur than her clearly dangerous driving. That speaks volumes to me about your priorities.
Plod; 'If that lady changes her mind you'll be in court on charges of criminal damage.
Me; Except that she won't will she? And I haven't actually damaged anything have I? So that's very unlikely.
Plod; But you can't go around kicking cars in.
Me; 'Who's talking about kicking cars in?'
As he turns to walk away I say; 'Did you have a word with her about her driving?
I didn't hear his response.

so so sadly true

 

[tongskie01]

why do we have to sympathise with the car, it hasn't got feelings. at the end of the day, we could replace a car but not a damaged body.

 

[spen666]

Aggressive? Who gives a toss? The old bint nearly took me out. If what I saw was typical of her driving she shouldn't be on the road. Driving around posing danger through incompetence is 'aggressive'. The only threat I pose is leaving fingerprints on door mirrors.

Congratulations:
a) You've just proved your aggression
b) you've proved you don't know what aggession is - driving posing danger is not the same thing as aggression.
c) you've managed to lose any sympathy people may have with you - and you fail to appreciate the effect your actions have on others. You may not have meant it but you probably terrified the driver.

The driver at least had the decency to admit she made a mistake - and asked the police not to take action against you.

You however, seem to think attacking cars is fine, abusing people ("the old bint") and have a chip on your shoulder when the police do their job and speak to you regarding your criminal activities.

The police do not catch every criminal and may or may not have seen her driving standards. They may have seen it and disagreed with you that it was dangerous! However, none of this gives a cyclist the right to take the law into their own hands.

From what you have posted, it was not an action to warn the driver you were there during their manouvere (which would be lawful), but an act of revenge after driver had finished manouvere.

She may have been in the wrong with her driving, but you on your own account were definitely wrong and several matters could have been brought against you including
a) S4 Public Order Act
b) (Attempted) Criminal Damage
c) Careless or Inconsiderate Cycling
d) Behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace

No doubt there are other matters that are potentially made out.

I have no doubt you were angered by her actions and I am not saying I wouldn't be angered as well. However anger does not justify lawbreaking, no matter how righteous that anger

 

[400bhp]

What's it like up there in the ivory tower Spen?

 

[mickle]

Congratulations:
a) You've just proved your aggression
b) you've proved you don't know what aggession is - driving posing danger is not the same thing as aggression.
c) you've managed to lose any sympathy people may have with you - and you fail to appreciate the effect your actions have on others. You may not have meant it but you probably terrified the driver.

The driver at least had the decency to admit she made a mistake - and asked the police not to take action against you.

You however, seem to think attacking cars is fine, abusing people ("the old bint") and have a chip on your shoulder when the police do their job and speak to you regarding your criminal activities.

The police do not catch every criminal and may or may not have seen her driving standards. They may have seen it and disagreed with you that it was dangerous! However, none of this gives a cyclist the right to take the law into their own hands.

From what you have posted, it was not an action to warn the driver you were there during their manouvere (which would be lawful), but an act of revenge after driver had finished manouvere.

She may have been in the wrong with her driving, but you on your own account were definitely wrong and several matters could have been brought against you including
a) S4 Public Order Act
b) (Attempted) Criminal Damage
c) Careless or Inconsiderate Cycling
d) Behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace

No doubt there are other matters that are potentially made out.

I have no doubt you were angered by her actions and I am not saying I wouldn't be angered as well. However anger does not justify lawbreaking, no matter how righteous that anger

What the **** are you on about? It seems to me that you hold the rights of a door mirror not to have my fingerprints on it above my right to go about my lawful business without fear of injury.

 

[PpPete]

Congratulations:
a) You've just proved your aggression
b) you've proved you don't know what aggession is - driving posing danger is not the same thing as aggression.
c) you've managed to lose any sympathy people may have with you - and you fail to appreciate the effect your actions have on others. You may not have meant it but you probably terrified the driver.

The driver at least had the decency to admit she made a mistake - and asked the police not to take action against you.

You however, seem to think attacking cars is fine, abusing people ("the old bint") and have a chip on your shoulder when the police do their job and speak to you regarding your criminal activities.

The police do not catch every criminal and may or may not have seen her driving standards. They may have seen it and disagreed with you that it was dangerous! However, none of this gives a cyclist the right to take the law into their own hands.

From what you have posted, it was not an action to warn the driver you were there during their manouvere (which would be lawful), but an act of revenge after driver had finished manouvere.

She may have been in the wrong with her driving, but you on your own account were definitely wrong and several matters could have been brought against you including
a) S4 Public Order Act
b) (Attempted) Criminal Damage
c) Careless or Inconsiderate Cycling
d) Behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace

No doubt there are other matters that are potentially made out.

I have no doubt you were angered by her actions and I am not saying I wouldn't be angered as well. However anger does not justify lawbreaking, no matter how righteous that anger

Bollocks !
Such legalistc twaddle might sound good but the CPS would know a magistrate is likely to laugh it out of court - or worse, have a "go" at the Police as being a waste of the court's time.
Were I in Mickle's shoes I would be making a formal complaint to the Police Force in question.

 

[Banjo]

I vaguely remember a case of a cyclist kicking the door of a car that passed too close getting charged with criminal damage.

His defence was he didnt kick the car but tried to push himself away from it with his foot to avoid going under the back wheel.

Magistrate threw it out on the grounds that if he could kick it the car was dangerously close.

 

[ferret fur]

"c) Careless or Inconsiderate Cycling"

Just remind me what offence this is?