Article on Tubeless

[Milzy]

I’ve just opted for some P-Zeros in 24 mm as they were 20% cheaper in that size as opposed to the larger sizes. They will probably come up 25/26mm on callipers anyway.
Although 28’s are great for comfort without loosing speed I’ve read a lot about it’s not good on a narrower rim. You will get the bulb out effect which is supposed to be less aero. I’ve read a few times it’s best to have your outer rim running as parallel as you can with the tire which seems to make sense.

 

[rogerzilla]

Not according to the highly rated comparison site https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews

Nope, they say it too.

.https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/schwalbe-one-tubeless-clincher


Clincher w latex tube: Have the lowest rolling resistance
Clincher w latex tube: High maintenance / pump every day
Clincher w light tube: Lower RR than tubeless tires
Clincher w light tube: Thin, bigger chance of a tire blowout
Tubeless road bike tire: Lower RR than clincher w std tube
Tubeless road bike tire: Virtually impossible to flat with sealant
Clincher w Std tube: Low maintenance, classic set up
Clincher w Std tube: Use if rims can't handle tubeless tires

 

[boydj]

1st tubeless experience was with Hunt wheels which came set up tubeless - 28mm Hutchison Sectors. Since then I've replaced the rear tyre with no problems getting it set up tubeless again.
2nd experience - had the lbs rebuild commuter wheels with Mavic tubeless rims. I set up these up myself with 28mm Conti GP5000 tyres with minimal problems getting them on and sealed - though I do have the Specialized air blaster to get the tyres seated.
3rd experience - my new Orbea Gain came with tubeless ready wheels and tyres, but set up with tubes. I had a puncture early on with the original setup and could not get the tyre off to replace the tube out on the road, nor after I got home. I eventually cut the tyre off. This was a tubeless tyre on a tubeless rim - and therefore a tight fit, but set up with a thick rim tape used, which made the tight fit even tighter, coupled with a lot of grip between the bead and the rim tape. I then tried to move to tubeless with IRC tyres. The rear I managed fine, but the front I could not get the tyre mounted and even the lbs took two of them to mount the tyre, and in doing so damaged the rim tape, so it would not seal properly. The IRC came off and an old Hutchison went on and sealed with no problem.

So getting a tubeless setup can be awkward, the level of difficulty very much depends on the rims and tyres used. Some combinations can be relatively easy, and some can be quite hard.

The bonus is that the ride is a step up from what you get using tubes, and the likelihood of punctures is much lower. I've done thousands of miles on tubeless tyres and have yet to puncture (as far as I'm aware). But then again, I didn't exactly have a lot of punctures when using tubes. But I like trying out new things and tubeless was an obvious challenge - which I'm glad I attempted.

 

[Milzy]

Not sure anybody mentioned this, but tires measure wider on wider rims. Tires that measure 23mm on 19mm rims measure ~25mm on 23mm rims (assuming commensurate increase in inner bead width). 25mm tires measure more like 27.5mm. It's mainly the fact that the tire is actually wider on wider rims that allows running lower pressures.

 

[Ajax Bay]

Without commenting on his general conclusions, which may or may not be right, I would point out that he's a bit of an idiot when it comes to being prepared.
He had valves that needed a tool to remove them (pliers or maybe another tool) and he didn't have the tool. Had he not given this any thought at all? Had he not at least mentally rehearsed the procedure for inserting a tube and checked that he had the tools? Evidently not. He was riding tubless tyres without carrying plugs - but in retrospect he's decided that they probably wouldn't have worked anyway.
That's a bit like complaining that tyres in general are a terrible idea because they require tyre levers to remove them easily. And who on earth carries those? Or riding a bike with wheelnuts and saying "I have no intention of ever carrying a spanner". I really have no sympathy for him. He seems to expect problems to magically sort themselves out without the right tools.
He may be right, but that doesn't mean he's not an idiot.

Don't think she's right (tubeless not suitable for road bike tyres) and clearly she was short of an interesting topic on which to write a thousand words as the 'technical editor'. Also reckoned that she could not be criticised for knowing little about this subject, as opposed to aero-type issues which have caused her grief in the past.

 

[matticus]

Not sure anybody mentioned this, but tires measure wider on wider rims

Really?!?

 

[Arrowfoot]

3 weeks into test.

1. Lower rolling resistance across PSI down to 35, clincher you can feel resistance clearly below 80.
2. Softer ride across PSI -

Always keen to try new things. Early assessment - not worth the faff.

1. hard than clincher to get the tyre into the rim due to the nature of tyre build to get the seal
2. sealing process and equipment on the road.
3. need to top up sealant.
4. messy

Punctures to ride distance ratio on clinchers are low and negligible. Change on the road is easy, low cost, low maintenance. I do like fettling but this is not bike fettling.

 

[Milkfloat]

Nope, they say it too.

.https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/schwalbe-one-tubeless-clincher


Clincher w latex tube: Have the lowest rolling resistance
Clincher w latex tube: High maintenance / pump every day
Clincher w light tube: Lower RR than tubeless tires
Clincher w light tube: Thin, bigger chance of a tire blowout
Tubeless road bike tire: Lower RR than clincher w std tube
Tubeless road bike tire: Virtually impossible to flat with sealant
Clincher w Std tube: Low maintenance, classic set up
Clincher w Std tube: Use if rims can't handle tubeless tires

That article is almost 7 years old, a lifetime in Tubeless tech, even then it was not the fastest TL tyre being tested.

This is a list of the fastest tyres.

 

[Milkfloat]

Ooops. Apologies to Michelle Arthurs-Brennan for referring to her as "he".

She's still an idiot for not taking the right tools out with her then complaining that she can't fix things that go wrong ... because she doesn't have the right tools.

Cat 1 riders like to travel light . Very brave of her as a Tech Editor to fess up to being unprepared, I would imagine that she will get a bit of a ribbing.

 

[lane]

Nope, they say it too.

.https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/schwalbe-one-tubeless-clincher


Clincher w latex tube: Have the lowest rolling resistance
Clincher w latex tube: High maintenance / pump every day
Clincher w light tube: Lower RR than tubeless tires
Clincher w light tube: Thin, bigger chance of a tire blowout
Tubeless road bike tire: Lower RR than clincher w std tube
Tubeless road bike tire: Virtually impossible to flat with sealant
Clincher w Std tube: Low maintenance, classic set up
Clincher w Std tube: Use if rims can't handle tubeless tires

Tubeless road virtually impossible to flat with sealant - that is complete rubbish.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

Rather than this thread declining into "if you don't agree with me you are wrong" ....

.... So who actually rides tubeless on a road bike on 25mm or 28mm tyres "successfully" or "unsuccessfully" (whatever that means - please feel free to add anecdotes) and what pressure are you running your tyres at?

Successfully, 30mm

 

[T4tomo]

Tubeless road virtually impossible to flat with sealant - that is complete rubbish.

they missed,out "fix"

 

[lane]

OK I run tubeless on GP5000 32mm for well over a year. In that time I had one puncture that I knew about and that sealed. However after tyres starting losing air and would not stay inflated I changed to tubes. I then re applied rim tape to solve the air loss issues and at the same time had a puncture which meant I had to change the tube. After re applying rim tape I tried to set up tubeless but the puncture had left a hole in the tyre that needed sorting. I put in a plug and pumped up and all looked good held air overnight - as soon as I went to ride plug came out as tyre was flat. decided to go back to tubes. Since then with tubes have had two punctures in about 3 months.

Conclusions:

1. I had fewer punctures with tubeless (1 in over a year compared which sealed itself with two in just over 3 months)
2. Tubeless was more maintenance heavy and ultimately I needed to re apply rim tape (possibly because I did a crap job in the first place)
3. The big one for me - when I had a puncture that would not seal I could not plug it. That would have been a pain on the road because putting a tube in would have been more hassle
4. I have had two punctures and they have not been much hassle (but it's summer which is a lot less hassle than winter especially if it's dark)
5. I run tubeless about 60psi

Conclusions:

1. Tubeless wasn't rubbish I had fewer punctures
2. Tubeless was probably more hassle overall with topping up sealant and problems with rim tape needing re doing
3. Tubeless was costing more money
4. Fixing punctures - even a couple in 3 months isn't too much hassle
5. I would go back to tubeless if I thought I could fix a puncture with a plug would be well worth it but that was not the case for me
6. It's quite a finely balanced decision but overall I will stick with tubes I think for the time being
7. If I get loads of punctures I may go back to tubeless

 

[Milzy]

How wide would a 24 mm P Zero stretch to on a 20 mm internal width rim? I’m guessing 26mm.

 

[Ajax Bay]

How wide would a 24 mm P Zero stretch to on a 20 mm internal width rim? I’m guessing 26mm.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews/pirelli-p-zero-velo-2017
If this is the tyre, a 25-622 measures 27mm at 100 psi on a 17.8 mm inner width rim.
Extrapolate.
Edit: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews/pirelli-p-zero-velo-race-tlr