Authenticating a vintage Colin Laing frame

[davester65]

Hi Guys, Looking for some help/advice on how to authenticate a Colin Laing frame? By the look of it I think it's a 70's built frame, the livery on the bike says Colin Laing Racing Cycles Redcar Yorkshire. There's no frame number stamped into the bottom bracket and I can't see one on the rear dropouts either, no bottle cage bosses or downtube shifter bosses, so I'm leaning towards a mass produced frame with Colin Laing Livery, though some of the components suggest a well specced bike, campag nouvo gran sport derailleurs and shift levers, campag seatpost etc non original shimano 105 brakes (late 80's variant). Does anybody know if Colin Laing bikes were built and sold under licence after he moved to the USA?

 

[midlife]

Pics might help, not to identify the maker as such but to see if it’s a well made frame. Lug shore lines and all that.

 

[davester65]

The bike just landed at mine this afternoon, will take some pics of the lugwork, dropouts etc and post tomorrow

Pics might help, not to identify the maker as such but to see if it’s a well made frame. Lug shore lines and all that.

 

[davester65]

Pics as promised guys.

 

[Ian H]

From the man himself:-
https://classicrendezvous.com/country-of-origin/usa/colin-laing/

 

[davester65]

Thanks

From the man himself:-
https://classicrendezvous.com/country-of-origin/usa/colin-laing/

Thanks Ian, so if this is a genuine Colin Laing it can be dated to pre 1974, I'm guessing the Redcar shop was his own & not one of the Taylor Brothers. Can't find a frame number stamped anywhere though which is unusual.

 

[biggs682]

Nice looking frame @davester65

 

[Ian H]

Hi Guys, Looking for some help/advice on how to authenticate a Colin Laing frame? By the look of it I think it's a 70's built frame, the livery on the bike says Colin Laing Racing Cycles Redcar Yorkshire. There's no frame number stamped into the bottom bracket and I can't see one on the rear dropouts either, no bottle cage bosses or downtube shifter bosses, so I'm leaning towards a mass produced frame with Colin Laing Livery, though some of the components suggest a well specced bike, campag nouvo gran sport derailleurs and shift levers, campag seatpost etc non original shimano 105 brakes (late 80's variant). Does anybody know if Colin Laing bikes were built and sold under licence after he moved to the USA?

Braze-ons rather than clips only became common in the later 70s. That frame is just of the period - gear hanger, gear cable stop, but nothing else. I like the front drop-outs.

 

[midlife]

Nice frame and well made, the lugs have been neatly thinned. As mentioned. No braze ons was an early 70”s thing

Frame makers say it was to fit the full campag ensemble including cable clip stuff. For those who lived through it the 3 day week meant belt tightening and that went for frame builders too. Cost cutting meant no braze ons and no chrome

Raleigh had their own chrome plant so they comtinued but most didn’t.

 

[davester65]

Thanks guys, some good info here. The owner is a friend of mine and she's thinking about putting it on eBay, will it sell as is for restoration & if so can you give us a rough guide price?

 

[Drago]

Thats a Holdsworth frame beyond a shadow of doubt. Note the Holdsworth lug pattern.

Our very own Mickle has one, albeit I think a later frame with rack bosses, which makes a handy comparison...

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/im-like-a-bike-magnet.304020/#post-7482647

Pay close attention to the lugs and layout.

Yours also has standard late 60s/70s/80s issue Holdsworth/Claud Butler 531 forks, although the dropout isn't typical which suggests further fettling has been going on.

Theres clearly a tale as to why it has no frame number and how it came to be liveried as it is and the H/CB forks altered in this way. Its clearly been repainted at some time so the existing livery isn't what came with the bike when new, and the lug lining is done very well which suggests probably not a DIY job. Some chopping and changing been going on there across the years and unless you can track down previous owners youll likely never discover the whys and wherefores.

I suspect little, if any, of the finishing kit is original to the bike.

The good news is while not especially exotic or fancy those frames make for very nice riding bikes indeed.

 

[Drago]

Updates - the forks are not nodded. Those drop outs identify them as being from a 1950s Holdsworth such as the Monsoon...

Your frame is a "Holdsworthy" era Holdsworth frame, my gut call says 70s but thats a guess based on straight brake bridge and absence of top tube cable guides.

Your forks are also Holdsworth, but almost certainly from an older machine. That said, although they churned out the numbers Holdsworthy (the combined Holdsworth and Claud Butler comcern) was a fairly small "mom and pop" type operation and there's a small possibility that frames were assembled with older forks found in a cupboard or the like.

All wrapped up in different paint job, somekne else's livery, and with a mysterious absence of frame number.

 

[davester65]

Thanks Drago, great info, the forks are identical and the lugwork on the frame is very close, so it probably is a 1960's Holdsworth(y) that got a refurb in the mid 70's, the campag finishing kit on the bike is nuovo gran sport (mid 70's to mid 80's), the brakes are 105 from the mid 80's & the front wheel is a mavic MA40 laced to a campag hub (again prob mid 70's - mid 80's) The bars are engraved Made in England, so I'll peel back the bar tape later to look for branding. I'm sorely tempted to sand around the bottom bracket to see if the serial number has been filled in.

Updates - the forks are not nodded. Those drop outs identify them as being from a 1950s Holdsworth such as the Monsoon...

View attachment 785118

Your frame is a "Holdsworthy" era Holdsworth frame, my gut call says 70s but thats a guess based on straight brake bridge and absence of top tube cable guides.

Your forks are also Holdsworth, but almost certainly from an older machine. That said, although they churned out the numbers Holdsworthy (the combined Holdsworth and Claud Butler comcern) was a fairly small "mom and pop" type operation and there's a small possibility that frames were assembled with older forks found in a cupboard or the like.

All wrapped up in different paint job, somekne else's livery, and with a mysterious absence of frame number.

 

[Drago]

Certainly don't feel short changed. They're brilliant riding frames in their own right, much better than their semi-mass produced origins would suggest. A recent house move and downsize of storage necessitated me getting rid on an esrly 80s one recently, to much regret.

You'll never make your money back restoring it but if you want a vintage bike to actually enjoy riding that's comfortable and swift it'd be worth every penny.

 

[davester65]

Just found this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/297139349458
matching lugwork dropouts on the frame, forks are different so certainly agree with Drago about having the forks replaced, so I'm thinking it's a mid 70's 531 Special, what do you guys think?