Ball-of-foot to length-of-foot ratio

[Twilkes]

For those at a loose end and with access to a tape measure, what is the ratio of your heel-to-ball measurement compared to the heel-to-longest-toe measurement?

I'm working through a few things around cleat placement, and I've come to the conclusion that what I thought was a more extreme rearward cleat position is actually just getting it near to where other riders have their cleats, proportionally.

I'm size 11.5 UK, and putting my heel against a wall the middle of the ball of my foot is 193mm away, and the end of my longest toe is 290mm away, so the ball of my foot is around 2/3 along my foot, I guess because I've got long toes, but I have no idea how this compares to other riders' feet.

With the size 12 dhb shoes I've bought, the furthest back I can get the cleat puts the spindle right under the ball of my foot, rather than the 10-20mm behind that is generally recommended these days. In comparison, the Shimano shoes I drilled a while ago only put the spindle 12mm behind the ball of the foot, and I was thinking this was close to mid-foot position. I've ordered a rearward adapter from https://mid-foot-cycling.com/products/mid-foot-spin2 - it might add too much stack to the cleat but they offer 3-month returns so will just give them a try.

So just wondered if anyone else had this particular problem, whether they were previously aware of it or just realising it now.

 

[slowmotion]

212/285

Equivalent to 1 : 1.344

 

[Twilkes]

212/285

Equivalent to 1 : 1.344

Wow, that's 3/4 compared to 2/3, that's a massive difference! What size feet?

 

[slowmotion]

Wow, that's 3/4 compared to 1/3, that's a massive difference! What size feet?

About UK 11 or EU 46

 

[Twilkes]

So if you had the size 11 dhb shoes you would have about an extra 18mm to play with, no wonder I need the adapters!

 

[sasquath]

My foot is 220/280 eu 45 UK 10.5/11

It's a first place I heard(read) of midfoot pedal axle position as a correct thing to do. Quite an educational read.
Last time i tried midfoot pedaling was some 25 years ago, switched to ball of the foot (roughly, no cleats) above pedal axle and never looked back.

 

[Twilkes]

My foot is 220/280 eu 45 UK 10.5/11

It's a first place I heard(read) of midfoot pedal axle position as a correct thing to do. Quite an educational read.
Last time i tried midfoot pedaling was some 25 years ago, switched to ball of the foot (roughly, no cleats) above pedal axle and never looked back.

More and more bike fitters are moving towards recommending a more rearward cleat position, if not necessarily all the way to midfoot. It's not for big sprinters or those that need to accelerate fast but a lot of pro long distance riders use it. When I played around with foot position it helped take stress off my calves, stabilised my foot and helped keep me going on longer endurance rides as the bigger muscles further up the leg were shouldering more of the work:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7oGuel--Lc#t=2m17s

 

[slowmotion]

I took the heel to ball dimension to be the point at which the inside of my foot is widest (from the fore-aft centre line). The equivalent position on the outside of my foot is quite a bit nearer my heel, about 165mm as opposed to 212mm.

 

[Twilkes]

I took the heel to ball dimension to be the point at which the inside of my foot is widest (from the fore-aft centre line). The equivalent position on the outside of my foot is quite a bit nearer my heel, about 165mm as opposed to 212mm.

Ah okay, there may or may not be a measuring difference - if you lift up your big toe, the bit that is still touching the floor is the ball, I measured to the middle of that, so to the vertical red line on the left.

 

[slowmotion]

Ah okay, there may or may not be a measuring difference - if you lift up your big toe, the bit that is still touching the floor is the ball, I measured to the middle of that, so to the vertical red line on the left.

View attachment 612009

In that case, the ball of my foot is much nearer to the 212mm dimension than to the 165mm one. I put the centre of my cleats halfway between the two measurements. It seems to work OK.

 

[Ajax Bay]

Just fit the cleat as far back as possible. Job done and legs (calves) will thank you. Unless you're racing crits.
https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/04/power-to-the-pedal-cleat-position/

 

[Twilkes]

Just fit the cleat as far back as possible. Job done and legs (calves) will thank you. Unless you're racing crits.
https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/04/power-to-the-pedal-cleat-position/

Yeah that's the page that started all this off last year, but the shoes I've now got don't go nearly far back enough, hence trying the adapter. It's only when I measured the different bits of my feet that I realised where the problem lay, and at the budget end of shoes there ain't a lot of scope for trying different models. If I'd have known this at the beginning I'd have probably tried Speedplay pedals as they seem to allow much more adjustment than the typical Shimano cleats.

 

[Ajax Bay]

I'd like to get back not to but towards mid foot, for the listed benefits but moderate some of the disadvantages: eg toe overlap with guards. I have normal road shoes and just shift (in my case sdp-r cleats) as back as far. Speedplay could get you further back: daughter has those Zero Aero for TT/tri-ing (latter to allow a top class marathon run (sub-3, proud father)).

 

[Wooger]

I'd like to get back not to but towards mid foot, for the listed benefits but moderate some of the disadvantages: eg toe overlap with guards. I have normal road shoes and just shift (in my case sdp-r cleats) as back as far. Speedplay could get you further back: daughter has those Zero Aero for TT/tri-ing (latter to allow a top class marathon run (sub-3, proud father)).

I have my cleats as far back as they go on my Shimano SPD shoes, but as with you there are negatives - mainly somehow getting toe overlap (with mudguards on anyway) on an XL frame! Mainly my big feet are to blame or course (size 14).

The cleat position did alleiviate some toe pins and needles I was getting, but does generally seem a bit. less powerful for pushing hard in bursts, and especially standing to power up hills. The unexpected benefit though is that it allows both a slightly lower (I guess I was toe pointing a bit) and slightly more forward seat position... Which helps with reach a bit - I can now use the drops on a bike where they were a bit low before.

 

[Twilkes]

I've ordered a rearward adapter from https://mid-foot-cycling.com/products/mid-foot-spin2 - it might add too much stack to the cleat but they offer 3-month returns so will just give them a try.

FWIW, the adapters arrived and I positioned them on the shoe, but the cleat (and possibly part of the adapter, depending on the curvature of the shoe) would sit proud of the sole either side of it, meaning one of the benefits of SPDs, i.e. hassle-free walking, would be gone, and would possibly damage floors and probably be dangerous on any kind of vaguely slippy surface. Could be different for the other types of cleat systems though.