BBC helmet cam film to explore cyclist-motorist conflict

[Jon2]

I must have some idea my friend. I've been driving 25 years without an accident and cycling for pretty much the same time on and off without accident either.

I haven't contributed much to this thread, but I want to point out that you're sounding a lot like one of the people in the film. The taxi driver who got upset when Gaz touched his car. He said something very similar, and yet it's quite clear from the film that he is a dangerous driver. I'm sure you've heard people talking about the stereotypical older driver who hasn't hit anyone, but leaves a wake of destruction behind them.

 

[User482]

We can continue to live in some made up fantasy, or we can deal with the real world.

I'd love a world in which cars moved at a maximum speed of 20mph in major metropolitajn areas but until that ever happens, we have to talk within the confines of the world we currently inhabit.

Most cars on open sections of road travel at 30mph. Most cyclists move at 15mph. That's double the speed.

Lots of overtakes could be better but they are necessary.

Overtakes are mostly unnecessary. I understand that motorists wish to overtake, but that is a very different thing.

Could you explain what is unreasonable in my earlier statement: "I don't have a great problem with pointless overtakes provided it's done in accordance with the Highway Code. But if there isn't room, the motorist isn't placed at any disadvantage by following the cyclist."

 

[BentMikey]

As I said, average speed, yes. Which is why I agree that a blanket 20mph speed limit would no doubt improve traffic flow.

But all cycles are not faster than all cars, all of the time. Thus they need to be overtaken within the existing transport network.

No cyclists need to be overtaken at less than highway code standard. Just wait behind until a highway code overtake is possible. Saying that's impractical is silly and wrong.

 

[Scruffmonster]

On what basis then are these overtakes necessary? They're not necessary to getting anywhere faster, they're not required by law, I'm struggling to think of any other grounds. Are you saying that car drivers are unable to exercise proper control of their vehicles at 12mph?

You're being facetious.

 

[Scruffmonster]

No cyclists need to be overtaken at less than highway code standard. Just wait behind until a highway code overtake is possible. Saying that's impractical is silly and wrong.

I'd be lucky if I saw 20% of the overtakes I see on my commute fit that criteria. Our roads are too busy, it's unworkable.

We can't retreat and hide behind an outdated leaflet. I know it's purpose, but it needs a heavy edit.

Highway Code standard gives no mention to a speed differential between the vehicles, and, I dont believe any guidance on cycles passing each other.

We have to work with reality. I don't expect highway code passes, I really don't. I expect considered, sensible passes. I think all of us would take that.

 

[Jon2]

I don't think I've ever had someone pass me considerately and sensibly and not at the same time be a Highway Code pass. If that makes sense.

 

[Bassjunkieuk]

We have to work with reality. I don't expect highway code passes, I really don't. I expect considered, sensible passes. I think all of us would take that.

That's pretty much my experience, the super poor passes are balanced by the textbook passes. The rest are scattered somewhere in between where I basically class them as "acceptable" in that they didn't hit/scare the bejesus out of me.

 

[albion]

On the whole I have always avoided Daily Mail comments.

It somehow makes me feel as bad as them by partaking in reading them.

 

[deanE]

Just caught up with watching the “movie”, BBC prog, and reading the “book”, this thread. Can’t say that the TV prog gave a very good account of humanity today. Several posts here about the “need" for motor vehicles to overtake, yet none that suggested that there was equally no “need" for the cyclist to over/undertake. Also Gaz’s comment about assertive cycling. The one thing about being assertive, as with any other of life’s skills, is knowing when to use it and when not. It doesn’t hurt to give way, even when you are in the right. It certainly hurts less than being hit by a car or the driver. Lots of cyclists talk about their right to be on the highway but not so many mention their responsibility, to themselves and others, and even less mention reciprocity, treating others as you would wish to be treated. I also think that there is a growing number of adult cyclists who don’t drive and haven’t learnt basic road sense and should not be allowed out on their own.

 

[BentMikey]

No, proper overtakes are not impractical, and the highway code isn't an outdated document. For the most part it is an exceptionally good piece of writing.

I should point out that that highway code picture is for a narrow lane. Where the lane is wider, and even in London there are plenty of these, a highway code pass is quite possible in the same lane.

IME most passes are highway code standard, and only a few are poor but acceptable. These get the toot and pushing out to the right motion to ask for more room, but no YouTubing or reporting. Perhaps one overtake might be YouTubeable in a 45 mile ride in London traffic, I don't know exactly.

 

[albion]

Many know that and ride on the pavement.

That I always agree with when suitable. Apart from busy city areas, most pavements are near deserted.
Few seem to walk.

 

[mickle]

Therein lies the problem.

Wherein lies the problem? I've spent the best part of forty years obeying the rules of the road and riding with care and consideration for the safety of others. Have I seen any improvement in the standard of driving around me? Have I buggery.

It's not cyclists posing the danger on our roads so I don't see why cyclists should 'work together' with anyone.

 

[PK99]

[QUOTE 2192986, member: 1314"]This morning I was overtaken by one of those small Audi sporty jobs (considerately I may add) as I approached Raynes Park Train Station. Traffic not too busy and moving freely. 6 miles later I’d left it behind, stuck at reds at Clapham Common tube. This was 6 miles later. Now, I was averaging 12mph this morning. Audi could quite reasonably have stayed behind me. Average speed of a car in London is only 11mph. [/quote]

and other traffic should stay behind the old biddy ex teacher I know who cycles along that road a little more then walking pace as she finds cycling easier than walking?

 

[Dan B]

You're being facetious.

No, I'm being serious. What disadvantage is a driver placed under if forced to follow a cyclist at 12mph instead of being able to accelerate very briefly to 30mph and then stop 15 seconds later at the back of the next traffic queue?

 

[User482]

and other traffic should stay behind the old biddy ex teacher I know who cycles along that road a little more then walking pace as she finds cycling easier than walking?

And if the ex teacher were in a car driving slowly, what then?