Be prepared for an accident

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I like Skol

A Minging Manc...
The reason some of us are sceptical on the value of helmets is that we have looked at some of the so-called "research" and found it wanting, in some cases to the extent it seems actually dishonest and intented to justify a position

I personally was an early adopter of helmets long before they were really a thing for leisure cyclists, and thought it "commons sense" and "obviously" a considerable safety benefit. Reading stuff on a similar forum I started to look into it. Here are some examples

The now notorious Rivera Thompson Rivera study which, from memory, indicated a huge reduction in head injuries. The trouble was they'd done something along the lines of comparing nice middle class helmeted kids riding in parks and leafy suburbs with unhelmetted inner city kids riding unsupervised on busy roads. Helmet wearing was also associated with a significant reduction in leg injuries. The result was therefore no surprise once you spot the error. In fairness at least one of the authors has acknowledged the flaws and distanced himself from the conclusion. Less honourably organisations like RoSPA used the result in their campaigns long after it had been discredited, arguably they were outright lying "think of the children" after all.

Another example was an Australian study which compared the proportion of head injuries vs other injuries pre and post helmet compulsion, which, fair enough seemed to show a reduction in head injuries indicating a benefit. I was half convinced until I saw the dates chosen did not correspond to introduction of compulsion (wearing rates went from 10% to 95% or whatever) but some different set of dates which looked to me like they'd been cherry picked to get the desired answer

Another recent study, I think in the UK did something similar then rather glibly happened to mention there was a correlation between drunk cyclists and not wearing helmets and also surprise surprise a correlation between drunken cycling (and for that matter drinking i. general) and head injury. The conclusions ignored this rather significant question which looked to me just as bad as the Rivera Thompson Rivera flaw. Also there does not seem to be a campaign for beer drinking helmets which might actually do some good. I half seriously argued this with a doctor friend who angrily shouted down my skepticism of cycle helmets.

Another study on the opposite side showed little to no benefit (maybe a small worsening) pre and post compulsory helmets in Australia and Ontario, but did indicate a reduction in people cycling. You'd have thought this would be considered relevant by the advocates but seemingly not

Another thought: it is worth remembering that an awful lot of doctors are not really all that numerate. I'm not saying this as an insult, but remember most doctors, unless they specialise in statistical analysis will not have studied maths beyond O level (or whatever it is). Typically doctors will have A levels in physics chemistry and biology and won't have time to do maths as well, and arguably maths is less important for their future study. This doesn't mean docs aren't clever people by and large but there is a tendency for genuine experts in one field to thing they know more than they do in another, especially if "common sense" is involved

I'm not a statistician and have studied very little stats but the flaws above seem blatant to suggest very poor grasp indeed by some of the authors

Another fairly simple fag packet calculations suggests a helmet makes your head into a 50 to 100% bigger target (cross sectional area not diameter remember). This too will obviously (and I think "obviously" is really justified here) have an impact (pub intended). You only have to turn a proportion of near misses or glancing blows into actual hits and you could potentially cancel out the benefit of a helmet for "legit" hits. I had such an incident where my head missed the ground by maybe the width of a helmet ! If I'd been wearing one I might well have been arguing on here it had "saved my life"

Not really fact, but I suffered a broken neck as a result of my head hitting the ground after a non fault rta. Spine specialist described the vertebrae damage as due to head being forcibly shocked to the side during impact. I wasn't wearing a helmet, but imagine I had been and my head was actually forced further by the extra inch or two of polystyrene...... Could have been in a wheelchair now?

It's all a bit random, which is why we need the statistics to back up helmet use. DOES WEARING A HELMET REDUCE THE CHANCE OF LIFE CHANGING INJURIES? I have posed this question many times and also Google searched quite extensively since my big rta incident and still failed to find a conclusive answer. The lack of definitive results leads me to believe there aren't any.
 
I have not seen anybody suggesting helmets should be anything but a personal choice. Whether pro or anti.

I have seen many antis suggesting it is a pointless or even wrong choice.

I think a few in the pro camp feel that maybe it should be compulsory for children, but every one I have seen says it should be personal choice for adults.
That's fun :-) So helmet proponents see any questioning of their arguments as saying that helmets are "a pointless or even wrong choice". Meanwhile, helmet sceptics always go the whole hog and describe the devices as pointless?

So, I scanned this forum as a sample:
  • This thread starts with a message saying, "Never ride without your helmet", even though, taken literally, it describes a facial injury and nothing to the part of the head that a helmet is meant to protect.
  • This thread asks whether anyone who has actually faced serious injury would go without one - even though the injury cited had nothing to do with cycling.
Your turn to cite some examples ^_^

At least we might learn from each others' reactions and tone down some arguments...
 
I'm not a statistician and have studied very little stats but the flaws above seem blatant to suggest very poor grasp indeed by some of the authors
I may have cited previously what the author of Bad Science had to say about helmets - they definitely have an excellent grasp, because they are medical statisticians. That book enjoyed a period of prominence amongst popular science readers for its treatment of the misuse of statistics in medical and other contexts. I've never encountered any suggestion that either of the authors involved even rides a bike, let alone has any personal opinion on whether helmets should or should not be worn, except as a particularly taxing example of problems in their field.

I find their conclusion especially telling:
In any case, the current uncertainty about any benefit from helmet wearing or promotion is unlikely to be substantially reduced by further research. Equally, we can be certain that helmets will continue to be debated, and at length. The enduring popularity of helmets as a proposed major intervention for increased road safety may therefore lie not with their direct benefits—which seem too modest to capture compared with other strategies—but more with the cultural, psychological, and political aspects of popular debate around risk.
 

Alex321

Guru
Location
South Wales
Don't you remember this a decade ago?
Bradley Wiggins said that cyclists need to 'help themselves' by wearing any protection possible.

“I think cyclists have to help themselves in terms of wearing helmets and things,” he said. “I think that probably should go some way to becoming the law soon.”
(source)

Wiggins quickly began backpedaling on that statement.

No, I don't remember that TBH. I wasn't cycling myself then, and while I was still following the big races and the GB team at the Olympics etc., I asn't taking as much interest otherwise at that time as I would now.

But I was referring really to discussions on this forum, rather than in general, though I didn't perhaps make that clear.

I am aware of suggestions from outside the cycling world that they should be made compulsory
 
The reason some of us are sceptical on the value of helmets is that we have looked at some of the so-called "research" and found it wanting, in some cases to the extent it seems actually dishonest and intented to justify a position

I personally was an early adopter of helmets long before they were really a thing for leisure cyclists, and thought it "commons sense" and "obviously" a considerable safety benefit. Reading stuff on a similar forum I started to look into it. Here are some examples

The now notorious Rivera Thompson Rivera study which, from memory, indicated a huge reduction in head injuries. The trouble was they'd done something along the lines of comparing nice middle class helmeted kids riding in parks and leafy suburbs with unhelmetted inner city kids riding unsupervised on busy roads. Helmet wearing was also associated with a significant reduction in leg injuries. The result was therefore no surprise once you spot the error. In fairness at least one of the authors has acknowledged the flaws and distanced himself from the conclusion. Less honourably organisations like RoSPA used the result in their campaigns long after it had been discredited, arguably they were outright lying "think of the children" after all.

Another example was an Australian study which compared the proportion of head injuries vs other injuries pre and post helmet compulsion, which, fair enough seemed to show a reduction in head injuries indicating a benefit. I was half convinced until I saw the dates chosen did not correspond to introduction of compulsion (wearing rates went from 10% to 95% or whatever) but some different set of dates which looked to me like they'd been cherry picked to get the desired answer

Another recent study, I think in the UK did something similar then rather glibly happened to mention there was a correlation between drunk cyclists and not wearing helmets and also surprise surprise a correlation between drunken cycling (and for that matter drinking i. general) and head injury. The conclusions ignored this rather significant question which looked to me just as bad as the Rivera Thompson Rivera flaw. Also there does not seem to be a campaign for beer drinking helmets which might actually do some good. I half seriously argued this with a doctor friend who angrily shouted down my skepticism of cycle helmets.

Another study on the opposite side showed little to no benefit (maybe a small worsening) pre and post compulsory helmets in Australia and Ontario, but did indicate a reduction in people cycling. You'd have thought this would be considered relevant by the advocates but seemingly not

Another thought: it is worth remembering that an awful lot of doctors are not really all that numerate. I'm not saying this as an insult, but remember most doctors, unless they specialise in statistical analysis will not have studied maths beyond O level (or whatever it is). Typically doctors will have A levels in physics chemistry and biology and won't have time to do maths as well, and arguably maths is less important for their future study. This doesn't mean docs aren't clever people by and large but there is a tendency for genuine experts in one field to thing they know more than they do in another, especially if "common sense" is involved

I'm not a statistician and have studied very little stats but the flaws above seem blatant to suggest very poor grasp indeed by some of the authors

Another fairly simple fag packet calculations suggests a helmet makes your head into a 50 to 100% bigger target (cross sectional area not diameter remember). This too will obviously (and I think "obviously" is really justified here) have an impact (pub intended). You only have to turn a proportion of near misses or glancing blows into actual hits and you could potentially cancel out the benefit of a helmet for "legit" hits. I had such an incident where my head missed the ground by maybe the width of a helmet ! If I'd been wearing one I might well have been arguing on here it had "saved my life"

I agree with you concept of doctors commenting on things they are not experts in
it does happen and only doctors that know that subject properly should comment

I do get really annoyed about "research" that aims at a target conclusion because such things do tend to undermine what may (or may not) be a good thing over all


I can also state a situation when a helmet can cause an actual accident
I often ride around on local canal tow paths and cycle paths

as a result I often go under low and tightly curved bridges
as a cyclist on a biek with flat bars my head it a bit higher than for a walker
there have been several times when I have ridden slightly further to the lower part of the curve and my helmet has caught on the roof in some way
there are one or two bridges where I have to ride right on the side fo the canal to get under without hitting the roof

this has caused me to react - and on the edge of the canal - and on concrete that generally slope alarmingly water -wards then this could easily make me fall off due to over correction or worse


so they are not the general preventer of all accidents that some people seem to claim
which is just stupid anyway - it is really not that difficult to work out ways in which they can make things worse


the point is that they will almost certainly stop a lot of potential head injuries
if they cause a few other then that's life



after all - people have died due to being unable to get out of a burning car due to a seat belt but no-one is calling for people to stop wearing them

TLDR - people should do proper research and people quoting it should check it lakes sense


If I had not been wearing a helmet
 
I have not seen anybody suggesting helmets should be anything but a personal choice. Whether pro or anti.

I have seen many antis suggesting it is a pointless or even wrong choice.
I assume you mean on this specific thread?
Because clearly there are people (yes, even cyclists) who are putting helmet rules in place. I've spoken to some of them (at a CTT regional meeting, if you're interested).

Helmet users go strangely quiet when you discuss existing rules with them, let alone suggest reversing any such rule!
 
DOES WEARING A HELMET REDUCE THE CHANCE OF LIFE CHANGING INJURIES? I have posed this question many times and also Google searched quite extensively since my big rta incident and still failed to find a conclusive answer. The lack of definitive results leads me to believe there aren't any.

The way that the Thompson, Riviera et c "study" is still the one that people reach for when telling me I should wear a helmet, would suggest that despite being very old and thoroughly debunked, it is still the best "evidence" to support helmet use.

All other studies for several decades have not produced any more evidence. I think if there was some it would have been found by now.

It would furthermore be trumpeted very loudly by people advocating helmet use.
 
Because clearly there are people (yes, even cyclists) who are putting helmet rules in place. I've spoken to some of them (at a CTT regional meeting, if you're interested).
I lost half a season of time trialling with my club when that rule was sprung on us. I have a large head, and that's how long it took to search all the available bike shops and find one to fit. Whether you ride a bike (i.e. exercise) is massively more important to life expectancy than any risks, and a lifetime's cycling seems to have been really effective in getting me through a double bypass in pretty good nick really. So I was pretty upset at being denied a way to promote my continued health.

The previous time I looked for one, it took my LBS ten years I think it was.
 
The best advice for preparing for an accident is wear a helmet. If a car hits you, and you take the driver to court, be sure you were wearing a helmet. If not the first thing the drivers lawyer will try to bring out is that since you were not wearing a helmet, you are partly to blame. That could also include wearing bright colored jersey, and having a flag on your bike or trike.

If a person driving a car hits you its not an accident (an act of God event), its a collision caused by someone's negligence!
 

icowden

Veteran
Location
Surrey
there have been several times when I have ridden slightly further to the lower part of the curve and my helmet has caught on the roof in some way
there are one or two bridges where I have to ride right on the side fo the canal to get under without hitting the roof
Have you experimented with not wearing a helmet and recorded how many times you have scalped yourself?
 
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