Beauty and the Bike

[MacB]

I'm not convinced tht everyone riding a heap of rubbish is doing so as a deliberate strategy, not in Oxford at least!

True, I think I was being influenced by some of the more extreme examples I've seen. Standing there wondering how someone actually rides on half a saddle, type thing.

 

[jonesy]

True, I think I was being influenced by some of the more extreme examples I've seen. Standing there wondering how someone actually rides on half a saddle, type thing.

Most of the students seem to manage without air in their tyres or oil on their chains, never mind having gears that are actually able to change...

 

[dellzeqq]

which brings us back to the beginning. The Kid is getting a beautiful bike for Christmas. She's been riding a heap of rubbish for the last year, leaving it chained outside tube stations until late at night, and not only has it not been stolen, it wouldn't matter if it was. What are the chances of her beautiful bike surviving?

 

[MacB]

which brings us back to the beginning. The Kid is getting a beautiful bike for Christmas. She's been riding a heap of rubbish for the last year, leaving it chained outside tube stations until late at night, and not only has it not been stolen, it wouldn't matter if it was. What are the chances of her beautiful bike surviving?

I wouldn't want to plan a first anniversary party for it

 

[marinyork]

Talking of bike security I was at a meeting a while back that was on about Lord Adonis's transport hubs for this bit of the country. It was rather depressing because although there would be an improvement on bike facilities at stations they would not be as good as they might because all the things they wanted to do would be banned under the excuse of terrorism.

 

[Nipper]

OK, I think I've got it now on this forum moaning about the UK not doing all the things they do in Holland is fine as long as you don't mention the cycle paths. You guys don't like cycle paths... well there won't be much of a cycling culture in the UK without the paths but you guys can hide behind your statistics that show that the type of cycling you like best is the best.

Your selfish attitudes are as bad as those of car drivers, you show a despicable lack of interest in actually getting new people cycling. You can hide behind your weak statistics and pathetic claims all you want but it won't get people cycling.

For 30 years I have ridden a bicycle for most of my transport, I have never driven a car and I AM F***ing FED UP with all the cars and lorries that blight this land. With people like you peddling your vehicular cycling lie there will be no change.

OK, rant over continue with your lies...

 

[jonesy]

Just read the sodding thread properly and stop this endless ranting and misrepresentation of what people are saying... and then read some of the links you've been given as they'll provide the factual basis that your posts have been lacking.

Edit- and there's plenty more links in the Campaign 'sticky' thread, starting with Cycling England. If you want a constructive discussion then do some reading and come back with some serious questions and you'll find people willing to respond in a positive fashion. If not, then the ignore list beckons.

 

[wafflycat]

Nipper, it's been pointed out many times - your ranting and abuse to posters does you nor your arguments any favours. Stop ranting. Stop your complete misreprestations of other posters' POVs. Stop being abusive.

 

[summerdays]

I'm not anti-cycle paths - this week alone I've use the Choclate Path, St Werburgh's Farm path, Bristol to Bath, Hartcliffe Way, Malago Greenway, and UWE-Locklease ones in Bristol getting to different locations for work. At least half of those paths are taking routes which don't follow the road and for me that is the nicer path, the only one that runs along right beside the road was the Hartcliffe way - and its a poor quality one but yesterday the advantage was road works (to build a better quality path on the other side of the road) that meant I went past hundreds of stationary cars.

I think part of the problem is route finding for new cyclists - they look at where they want to go and think about the route if they drove there. They forget/don't know all the back roads, short cuts, shared path routes, roads that used to be through roads but now closed to cars etc. (Even as I type I keep remembering other bits of shared path sections I have used this week). I have found out about all these little routes usually in conversation or travelling with friends around the city, together with my habit of exploring.

Now a new cyclist doesn't know all these helpful routes to avoid some of the junctions/roundabouts that they find a problem. There are cycling maps in Bristol which show most of them but not all.

 

[jonesy]

Choice, people. Choice.

Bikes don't hold up traffic, so let those who don't use the cycle paths ride on the road.

And let those who don't want to use the road (why should they?) or have reasons not to (like carrying or escorting children) use the cycle paths.

Up to a point, yes. But the argument about which form of infrastructure you should use when a choice is available is not the same as the argument about which form of infrastructure should be provided given limited resources and physical constraints, especially when retro-fitting into existing streets. Hence we have the hierarchy of measures to help identify and prioritise what is the most effective approach for a given location and set of circumstances.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/cyclingengland/engineering-planning/design-principles/

See also DfT's Cycle Infrastructure Design guide:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/ltnotes/ltn208.pdf

in particular Section 1.3 Underlying principles, Table 1.2 showing the Hierarchy and Table 1.3 showing how different forms of provision are appropriate for different traffic flows and speeds. The latter is based on the approach set out in Dutch guidance.

 

[style over speed]

OK, I think I've got it now on this forum moaning about the UK not doing all the things they do in Holland is fine as long as you don't mention the cycle paths. You guys don't like cycle paths... well there won't be much of a cycling culture in the UK without the paths but you guys can hide behind your statistics that show that the type of cycling you like best is the best.

Your selfish attitudes are as bad as those of car drivers, you show a despicable lack of interest in actually getting new people cycling. You can hide behind your weak statistics and pathetic claims all you want but it won't get people cycling.

For 30 years I have ridden a bicycle for most of my transport, I have never driven a car and I AM F***ing FED UP with all the cars and lorries that blight this land. With people like you peddling your vehicular cycling lie there will be no change.

OK, rant over continue with your lies...

+1

Similarly I've been cycling for over 30 years mostly around London, and I'm totally fed up with the block that is LCC towards promoting proper infrastructure. I've sadly come to the opinion that most cyclists don't actually want more people to cycle, they like the little boost to their esteem they get from being in an "outsider" group. Look at all the special gear that London commuters wear to identify themselves when there's little need for it on an trip of less than say 10 miles.

 

[dellzeqq]

+1

Similarly I've been cycling for over 30 years mostly around London, and I'm totally fed up with the block that is LCC towards promoting proper infrastructure. I've sadly come to the opinion that most cyclists don't actually want more people to cycle, they like the little boost to their esteem they get from being in an "outsider" group. Look at all the special gear that London commuters wear to identify themselves when there's little need for it on an trip of less than say 10 miles.

you have problems. The LCC persuaded Boroughs and the GLA to sling £140 million at LCN+. The problem is.........very few people use it. Try wandering down the Wandle Trail.

As for your estimation of your fellow cyclists - that's just foolish. And if it's addressed at me it's defamatory.

 

[Nipper]

+1

Similarly I've been cycling for over 30 years mostly around London, and I'm totally fed up with the block that is LCC towards promoting proper infrastructure. I've sadly come to the opinion that most cyclists don't actually want more people to cycle, they like the little boost to their esteem they get from being in an "outsider" group. Look at all the special gear that London commuters wear to identify themselves when there's little need for it on an trip of less than say 10 miles.

Thanks, SOS you are right that there seems to be no organisation with the vision to try and promote proper infrastructure. I met Koy earlier this year and he is a lovely chap, a ukulele player and a gentleman. He said all the right things about cycling and I am sad to hear that the LCC are not doing their best to promote more cycling.

I think the views of cyclists here are typical of many seasoned UK riders in that they cling hard and fast to vehicular cycling, that Jonesy chap even argues against choice! He sites cycle England's Hierarchy of provision which puts segregated infrastructure last, what a joke; just because CE says it doesn't mean it's right. The other measures all improve cycling for people confident and happy to share the road with massive HGVs and fast moving nutters in cars, but do nothing to encourage the non cyclists to replace car journeys with bicycle ones. It is strange that we should not copy the countries that have got it right but arrogantly assume that the UK organisations know best.

The websites to read are Hembrow and Copenhaganize as they really have hit the nail on the head. I think the UK cyclists fear becoming marginalised by mass normal cycling, on normal bikes, in normal clothes.

BTW I am sure you must read this
http://crapwalthamforest.blogspot.com/

The guy is great and makes some really important points... do you live near there?

 

[MacB]

Thanks, SOS you are right that there seems to be no organisation with the vision to try and promote proper infrastructure. I met Koy early this year and he is a lovely chap, a ukulele player and a gentleman. He said all the right things about cycling and I am sad to hear that the LCC are not doing their best to promote more cycling.

I think the views of cyclists here are typical of many seasoned UK riders in that they cling hard and fast to vehicular cycling, that Jonesy chap even argues against choice! He sites cycle England's Hierarchy of provision which puts segregated infrastructure last, what a joke; just because CE says it doesn't mean it's right. The other measures all improve cycling for people confident and happy to share the road with massive HGVs and fast moving nutters in cars, but do nothing to encourage the non cyclists to replace car journeys with bicycle ones. It is strange that we should not copy the countries that have got it right but arrogantly assume that the UK organisations know best.

The websites to read are Hembrow and Copenhaganize as they really have hit the nail on the head. I think the UK cyclists fear becoming marginalised by mass normal cycling, on normal bikes, in normal clothes.

BTW I am sure you must read this
http://crapwalthamforest.blogspot.com/

The guy is great and makes some really important points... do you live near there?

Excellent stuff Nipper I'd not picked up any of that from your earlier rantsposts!!!

 

[jonesy]

..

I think the views of cyclists here are typical of many seasoned UK riders in that they cling hard and fast to vehicular cycling, that Jonesy chap even argues against choice! He sites cycle England's Hierarchy of provision which puts segregated infrastructure last, what a joke; just because CE says it doesn't mean it's right. ..

Didn't you read? The hierarchy is based on Dutch practice, the very thing you keep telling us to follow! But if you keep on misrepresenting my posts, and accusing me of lying, then into the ignore you list go. bye.