Before you go off upgrading your road bike...

[ColinJ]

I can't be that heavy on the brakes then. I get 3-4 years out of a rim on my road wheels and a couple of years on my off-road wheels.

I wouldn't be either on flattish roads but when descending this kind of thing, heavy braking is not optional!

 

[iandg]

I wouldn't be either on flattish roads but when descending this kind of thing, heavy braking is not optional!

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I can understand why you're happy with discs. I don't have an opinion one way or another. As commented if I bought a new bike it would have discs because that's what's flooding the market and availability of spares. I used to ride mountain and hilly TTs and never had a problems with rim brakes and stopping (even with 70s/80s technology).

Out of interest - how much for a set of pads and how often do you replace pads and wheels?

 

[FishFright]

So they're probably a good thing for winter MTB rides (which is what they were developed for).
But they're little use in CX racing*, and even less for road-riding.

Glad we've cleared that up!

*As Ian has explained, and my racing over several seasons has confirmed.

Why do you think MTB were developed for winter ? MTBer since the early 90's and have never seen that referenced anywhere.

 

[Alex321]

Why do you think MTB were developed for winter ? MTBer since the early 90's and have never seen that referenced anywhere.

I think it is the disc brakes that he thinks for some reason were initially developed only for winter MTB riding.

I thought it was just for MTB riding generally, and then they have spread as people realise the benefits for other type of riding (benefits he doesn't think exist for some reason).

 

[alex_cycles]

So they're probably a good thing for winter MTB rides (which is what they were developed for).
But they're little use in CX racing*, and even less for road-riding.

Glad we've cleared that up!

*As Ian has explained, and my racing over several seasons has confirmed.

I found my disc brakes quite helpful on tonight's CX race, but each to their own. Quite puzzled how I would have got round the twisty course without them. Oh - I know. On foot!

 

[neil_merseyside]

Answering the question to Colin, I had 9-10K miles out of my first disc pads, but only 7-8K out of my second set, I must have done a bit more hilly stuff I guess,or anticipated less?
A disc rim shouldn't need replacing ever except after a prang?
I wore out old fashioned rim pads in a day on the TPT and the rims in the other 3 days well they had what I'd call terminal concavity, but it was before I had an Iwanson guage so they might have been OK really ?

 

[mustang1]

I had dura ace but upgraded to tiagra. Now the groupset lasts much longer before requiring replacement. The tiagra was cheaper than the DA too!

 

[Gunk]

I love an unnecessary upgrade, it’s now become a habit.

 

[ColinJ]

Neil beat me to it while I was typing!

I can understand why you're happy with discs. I don't have an opinion one way or another. As commented if I bought a new bike it would have discs because that's what's flooding the market and availability of spares. I used to ride mountain and hilly TTs and never had a problems with rim brakes and stopping (even with 70s/80s technology).

My road bikes all have rim brakes! I would go for disc if I bought another one, but that isn't likely to happen in the near future. All I do for now is to put the red Cannondale (in the 'Mytholm Steeps' photo) away from the first gritting of the winter until a few weeks after the final one, to allow time for the roads to get washed clear of salt and grit. It is that salty 'grinding paste' combined with repeated heavy braking that does the damage.

I usually ride my singlespeed bike in the winter these days. That has much cheaper wheels, and I can't do steep hills on it anyway, so rim wear is less of a issue. When necessary I will just buy another inexpensive set of wheels for it.

I have 2 CX bikes. They are ridden on and off road over all sorts of terrain and variable conditions so I made sure that I chose bikes with discs. The older bike has been out of action for a while, awaiting a fork replacement. (Safety recall.) I only bought the other one a year ago and it is stored at my sister's house in Devon so I only get to ride it on my holidays

The MTB also has discs.

Out of interest - how much for a set of pads and how often do you replace pads and wheels?

I have never replaced a disc wheel. (Strictly speaking, I did put a new set of wheels on the Devon bike when I bought it, but that was only because I wanted to treat myself to some better wheels than the cheap ones that were on it.)

There are many different brands and types of disc pad so the prices are very variable. Some can be very expensive, some not too bad. I have recently bought 2 complete sets for my Devon bike. I haven't checked the original pads yet but hilly Devon is like Yorkshire and Lancashire in terms of braking (I can be up and down steep stuff all day, therefore lots of heavy braking). I wanted to have spares ready to make sure that dodgy brakes never spoil a cycling holiday down there! These pads are a type I have never tried before (kevlar)... about £28 for 2 sets. I only do about 1,200 km a year in Devon so I would expect to get several years out of those pads. I'll post back in this thread when I put the first set in, and again when I have to replace those with the second set.

I never really took much notice of how often I changed the MTB pads. It didn't seem to be annoyingly frequently, but I have changed them a few times times over the 20 years that I have owned the bike!

 

[iandg]

Neil beat me to it while I was typing!


My road bikes all have rim brakes! I would go for disc if I bought another one, but that isn't likely to happen in the near future. All I do for now is to put the red Cannondale (in the 'Mytholm Steeps' photo) away from the first gritting of the winter until a few weeks after the final one, to allow time for the roads to get washed clear of salt and grit. It is that salty 'grinding paste' combined with repeated heavy braking that does the damage.

I usually ride my singlespeed bike in the winter these days. That has much cheaper wheels, and I can't do steep hills on it anyway, so rim wear is less of a issue. When necessary I will just buy another inexpensive set of wheels for it.

I have 2 CX bikes. They are ridden on and off road over all sorts of terrain and variable conditions so I made sure that I chose bikes with discs. The older bike has been out of action for a while, awaiting a fork replacement. (Safety recall.) I only bought the other one a year ago and it is stored at my sister's house in Devon so I only get to ride it on my holidays

The MTB also has discs.


I have never replaced a disc wheel. (Strictly speaking, I did put a new set of wheels on the Devon bike when I bought it, but that was only because I wanted to treat myself to some better wheels than the cheap ones that were on it.)

There are many different brands and types of disc pad so the prices are very variable. Some can be very expensive, some not too bad. I have recently bought 2 complete sets for my Devon bike. I haven't checked the original pads yet but hilly Devon is like Yorkshire and Lancashire in terms of braking (I can be up and down steep stuff all day, therefore lots of heavy braking). I wanted to have spares ready to make sure that dodgy brakes never spoil a cycling holiday down there! These pads are a type I have never tried before (kevlar)... about £28 for 2 sets. I only do about 1,200 km a year in Devon so I would expect to get several years out of those pads. I'll post back in this thread when I put the first set in, and again when I have to replace those with the second set.

I never really took much notice of how often I changed the MTB pads. It didn't seem to be annoyingly frequently, but I have changed them a few times times over the 20 years that I have owned the bike!

Thanks. Purely interest. When I rode Dirty Reiver they recommended spare disc pads in your emergency kit which I thought was overkill.

Similar price I pay for brake pads which I swap maybe every 12-18 months.

 

[ColinJ]

Purely interest. When I rode Dirty Reiver they recommended spare disc pads in your emergency kit which thought was overkill.

Similar price I pay for brake pads which I swap maybe every 12-18 months.

Funnily enough, I had a wee bit of a brake block problem with my first MTB, the one with rim brakes. I had noticed that the blocks were getting worn but I thought I could get another couple of rides out of them. MISTAKE! It was one of those gritty grinding paste kind of rides. I came to a Kamikaze descent and applied the brakes. Halfway down, the remainder of the blocks wore away. The metal brake block shoes started destroying my wheel rims but I had no choice but to carry on braking. (I suppose I could have leapt off onto the big rocks littering the bridleway but decided I would rather sacrifice the wheels than myself! ) That was the end of those wheels... Somewhat more expensive than replacing the brake blocks on time would have been, and I still had to buy new blocks anyway.

 

[iandg]

Off Topic - I sold a set of caliper brake blocks at a control on LEL this year. Not sure why you wouldn't check wear on brake pads before the start of a ride like that?

 

[DCLane]

Off Topic - I sold a set of caliper brake blocks at a control on LEL this year. Not sure why you wouldn't check wear on brake pads before the start of a ride like that?

If I'm doing a long event like PBP/LEL then the whole bike gets new bits; tyres, chain, cables, brake pads, etc. No way would I start an event with a bike needing basic maintenance.

However, I did finish the last LEL with only half a working brake caliper since the rear and half the front broke during the ride. Since the front went after Yad Moss I just kept going. I used the Ridgeback Platinum below, with the brakes now replaced by a lovely blingy silver Velo Orange brakeset.

Oh, and I rode my first Llanfair 400 the day after finishing my Ridgeback Platinum audax bike build. Due to work and family the 400km event was the test ride, with adjustments to saddle height and fit en route. It must've worked though as I've done over 12,000 miles on it since.

 

[ColinJ]

Off Topic - I sold a set of caliper brake blocks at a control on LEL this year. Not sure why you wouldn't check wear on brake pads before the start of a ride like that?

Maybe a fellow skinflint who thought that (s)he could get another 1,500+ km out of them!

A friend of mine sometimes turns up for longish** rides with a bike that then packs up, or gets perilously close to packing up.




** Certainly not 1,500 km, but maybe 100-150 km.

 

[freiston]

Regarding disc brakes/rim brakes (I'll stick to road cycling because off road is a different kettle of fish) - the weakest part of my (rim) braking system is tyre traction. I made two "emergency stops" yesterday - both on narrow winding single track lanes with lots of loose gravel etc. Both were made because of cars coming round blind bends rather fast. Both times I managed to stop before the car driver (though one of them didn't quite stop but kept moving forward as I pulled over - I think she had no intention of stopping). On one of the stops, both I and the car driver lost traction and had a little skid (that was the driver that did stop). Modern alloy rims with modern compound rim brake blocks are easily capable of giving traction-breaking braking in any weather. In my experience, this also goes for when fully loaded camping too (20+kg of luggage & a 78 kg rider). Rim wear might be a significant factor for some.

I've never ridden with disc brakes but I do like simplicity in bikes and, as unlikely as it might be, I wouldn't look forward to a hydraulic bleed and fluid replacement but I've heard very good things about Paul Components Klamper cable disc brakes. The attraction of disc brakes to me is the relatively problem free ability to change wheels and/or tyres for something of a different size, and the extra tyre clearance that it can afford overall - and never having to worry about rim wear. But for decent disc brakes, you're talking a lot of money and a fair bit of weight (compared to my cantilevers). If I had the money and the reason to replace my touring bike now - it would be based on a Spa Wayfarer frame with Paul Components Klamper cable disc brakes.

However, when I reflect on comp record times for 25 miles, they have improved from 52 minutes in 1966 to today's 42 minute ride. That's a colossal improvement. Even mind blowing when you think that at 30mph, they cover 5 miles in 10 minutes. Can you imagine the great Dave Dungworth being dropped for 5 miles compared with current holder.

You can't isolate mechanical upgrades from positioning and training techniques, but a few of the upgrades to the bikes must have been quite significant.

In 1908, the world record for running a marathon was 2:55:18.4, in 1958 2:15:17.0 and in 2018 2:01:39. The women's record went from 3:40:22 in 1926, to 3:07:27.2 in 1967 and then to 2:14:04 in 2019.

I wonder how much of that was down to the shoes and the vest?

I would argue that, in respect to road bikes, the gear isn't going to turn an average club rider into a TdF rider but a TdF rider with the "best" gear would have a small advantage over a similarly capable rider with "not the best" gear. Of course, it's the rule of diminishing returns. The quality and function of modern components (beyond the bargain end BSO type stuff) is so good that an upgrade will not make a significant difference except where seconds are significant in your event (so not relevant to non-competitive cycling - and probably more significant in the head of some amateur racers/segment chasers than in reality)