Being yelled at and perceptions of cyclists....

[Origamist]

So what's the conclusion?

CycleCraft is the 'Correct' way to ride a bike.

Cyclecraft is a distillation of the current received wisdom on how best to ride a bike on the road. However, what is considered best practice has changed over the years and will continue to evolve.

Ride in 'Primary' but move to Secondary when the kerb is clear.
"Be assertive",
Ride in a position where you can be clearly seen,
Etc, etc.

I'll extend my offer again - if you want me to send you the latest edition of Cyclecraft I'll pop it in the post. It will save you the effort of trying to clumsily condense other peoples' interpretations of the text.

What we are saying is our experiences suggest motorists consider this cycling style to be arrogant, selfish and obstructive.

Some do, most don't. I don't get anywhere near the amount of grief that you seem to imagine and I ride most of my commute in primary.

Then cyclists wonder why motorists shout at, curse and generally dislike cyclists.

Some people have disliked cyclists since the invention of the motor car (and before that), Jim .

Maybe we CAN'T have it both ways. Maybe we should yield sometimes.

Of course, no one is suggesting otherwise. However, when we want to ride in a more prominent position, we do so for perceived safety reasons.

Maybe Primary should be in the nearside tyre tracks and Secondary should be in the centre when obstructions are present.

I actually have a bit of sympathy with that view - I've never been a fan of the nomenclature used by Franklin.

 

[brokenbetty]

So really, they have been named 'arse about face'!

Primary - prevalent,
Secondary - safety.

That's easy to remember.

They haven't been named arse about face, you misunderstood the naming!

Primary - main position in a lane. Usual position for a car
Secondary - sub position in a lane. Usual position for a bike

Sometimes a lane doesn't have room for both primary and secondary positions to be adopted safely, ie for a cyclist riding in secondary to have enough space to avoid car doors, potholes or other obstructions without crossing into a motorist's path. When this happens,a responsible cyclist should move to primary to prevent poor judgement by a motorist creating an unsafe situation.

Cyclists get shouted at, cursed and 'buzzed' because the motorist thinks the cyclist is taking too much of the carriageway, ie 'getting in the way'.

No one could disagree with that. The point you are missing is that sometimes the motorist is right but sometimes their assessment of "too much" is just plain wrong. Some people are just bad drivers. If the aim is to never annoy a motorist we might as well all get off the bike as it will never happen. My aim is to never annoy a motorist for longer than is both justifiable and reasonable.

 

[Dan B]

I think many drivers just don't have the car control to vary their speed and position, they can only drive in a straight line at the speed of the car in front

Funny, I got beeped at once for riding in a straight line at the speed of the car in front. By a professional driver, too

 

[Lurker]

I'll extend my offer again - if you want me to send you the lastest edition of Cyclecraft I'll pop it in the post. It will save you the effort of trying to clumsily condense other peoples interpretations of the text.

Sounds like a very good offer - why not go for it?

 

[psmiffy]

Until I visited this forum I never ever thought about Primary and Secondary - My default position is in the left hand wheel track - I assume that is the secondary - and in the middle of the lane when I want to make myself big when manouvering or where there are "pinch points" - Primary? - If I find that cars are getting closer than I want then I move out a little bit

Following this principle has never caused me get involved in "Verbal Interactions" - Plenty of time when people have yelled at me (as someone else said "in Northampton") - but I suspect the people involved just do it for the hell of it - along with the water pistols and the occasional fruit

 

[jimboalee]

There is another cycling advice man, he is nuttycyclist.co.uk.

He calls the positions 'Normal', 'Centre' and 'Right of centre' ( 'cus he's in the UK ).

I consider this much more sensible.

He refers to CycleCraft often, as he doesn't want to reinvent the wheel. He must have found Franklin's naming logic as confusing as I did, so is kinder to the reader by giving them immediately comprehensible names.

You may argue "What's Normal"?

If you've been living on another planet, you wouldn't have seen a cyclist before in your life, so 'normal' is a position Left of centre or 'in the nearside tyre tracks'.

 

[Origamist]

He posts mainly on YACF, Jim - but sometimes here too...

 

[ttcycle]

I think one thing you also need to consider is the speed you are travelling at, I would probably not have taken primary up a hill where you're likely to be making much slower progress unless there was a need to for safety reasons etc. The whole point of primary and secondary is to be part of traffic flow.

 

[Bollo]

I thought the naming of primary and secondary was borrowed from motorcycle training? Only a vague memory, so I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong.

 

[Origamist]

I thought the naming of primary and secondary was borrowed from motorcycle training? Only a vague memory, so I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong.

I don't think the terms were/are used in motorcycle training - but if anyone knows different, I'd be interested to hear (that is not to say that cyclist best practice has not been informed by motorcycle training in other regards).

 

[jimboalee]

I don't think the terms were/are used in motorcycle training - but if anyone knows different, I'd be interested to hear (that is not to say that cyclist best practice has not been informed by motorcycle training in other regards).

When I took M/C training, the usual 'normal' position was in the outside tyre tracks because a M/C can travel at the speed of the traffic and it's away from being 'doored' at all times.

 

[jimboalee]

" If the rule is to drive on the left-hand side of the road, the best position to ride in is the clear patch to the left of the centre line (the right tyre track, in other words). This will give you a buffer zone from the edge of the road, and keep you off the oil slick in the middle of the lane. You will also have a good view of side streets. "

Quote BBC H2G2.

 

[Matthames]

On my ride today there is a good example of when you must ride in primary. There is a bridge that goes over a railway track. This bridge is fairly narrow with brick wall either side. To make matters worse the bridge is on a blind corner so you have no idea what traffic is going to come the other way. If I were to take secondary there is a good chance I would be squashed against the wall as some muppet tries overtake and suddenly comes across a car coming the other way.

Having said that I had some impatient moton beep me on this section all because I was in primary. When he did eventually pass me, he did suggest that I masturbate a lot. You are always going to get drivers like this who really can't consider the hazards faced with other road users and don't like being held up for a couple of seconds.

 

[Arch]

He refers to CycleCraft often, as he doesn't want to reinvent the wheel. He must have found Franklin's naming logic as confusing as I did, so is kinder to the reader by giving them immediately comprehensible names.

Funny, when I read Cyclecraft, I understood fine. Of course I had the benefit of actually reading the book and seeing the diagrams, as opposed to not reading it and jumping to the wrong conclusion.

It's been explained, probably hundreds of times, to newbies, and yet you've managed to misunderstand all this time?

Still, your assertion that someone who drives for a living is not a professional driver is priceless, and it's been worth it for the laugh I got from that.

 

[Glow worm]

I think a pretty large minority of motons are utter f*ckwits. They behave like spoilt children. If you even momentarily stop the imbeciles doing as they please (by getting in their way as they percieve it) they throw their toys out of the pram with the usual moronic shouting or impotent beeping. Muppets. I sometimes wonder if I'm part of the same species - especially when I look at all the filthy shite they chuck out of their cages onto verges (why do they piss in bottles?). Can't wait for £20 per gallon petrol.

That said, so far so good on the new year resolution front. I said to myself I will no longer react to cager's idiocy and let it pass me serenly by. I've found I'm a lot calmer and enjoy the ride far more. Apart from a bang on a streak if piss's window when it's cage passed me within an inch- it's worked a treat. Ignore the f*ckers that's my advice.