Being yelled at and perceptions of cyclists....

[Rhythm Thief]

Still, your assertion that someone who drives for a living is not a professional driver is priceless, and it's been worth it for the laugh I got from that.

That made me laugh as well. I presume also that because I only ride bikes - as opposed to designing them - I'm also not a "cyclist" (and neither is Lance Armstrong, come to that) and because I play a guitar but have never built my own, I'm also not yet a "guitarist".

 

[BentMikey]

FWIW, I think primary is the right name. According to John Franklin, it's the default position on the road, and rightly so. Secondary is what you use in concession to faster traffic to make it easier for them to pass you. On an empty road I'll be riding in the middle of the lane.

 

[jimboalee]

FWIW, I think primary is the right name. According to John Franklin, it's the default position on the road, and rightly so. Secondary is what you use in concession to faster traffic to make it easier for them to pass you. On an empty road I'll be riding in the middle of the lane.

Where there's more likelyhood of there being oil drippings, diesel spillages and small sharp pieces of glass etc, just wanting to get stuck into a bike tyre.

I would ride in secondary, or the 'nearside tyre tracks', where there's less probability of me getting oil splashed up me, slipping on spilled diesel or picking up a near invisible bit of broken beer glass.

 

[jimboalee]

FWIW, I think primary is the right name. According to John Franklin, it's the default position on the road, and rightly so. Secondary is what you use in concession to faster traffic to make it easier for them to pass you. On an empty road I'll be riding in the middle of the lane.

I would have thought a recumbent rider, who has a lower viewpoint of the surface ahead, would make a consious effort to stay out of the shoot down the middle.

 

[tdr1nka]

When I took M/C training, the usual 'normal' position was in the outside tyre tracks because a M/C can travel at the speed of the traffic and it's away from being 'doored' at all times.

And as an urban cyclist, I can and will do the same. No more in anyones way than a motorbike if I'm travelling at the same speed as the traffic.

The problem with this is drivers who believe they should be in my space and less than a cars length ahead.

As a recumbent rider you spend more time in the lane as drivers are generally more reticent about overtaking 'bents'.

And there is just as much road cr*p to the left of the lane as there is in the middle.

 

[jimboalee]

If it's an empty road then you'll be able to see all these things.

I take it you never get a puncture because you can see the tiniest of tiny shard of glass on the road at five meters distance.

And that's pretty good going for a guy who wears shades on a dull day.

 

[BentMikey]

Jimbo, you keep making wrong assumptions. Who said I'm riding *exactly* in the middle of the diesel tracks? The middle of the lane might easily include a little to the left or right of the dirty track, enough to be out of the worst of it. Besides, in London the whole track effect is much less common than out in the sticks because of the weight of traffic.

 

[BentMikey]

If you really want crap to ride in, use cycle lanes/paths.

 

[ttcycle]

jimbo are you still going with this one? Actually my experience of road conditions and crap left on the road has been to the left and in cycle lanes.

Try it, you might be pleasantly surprised. What's your average speed on your commute? User commutes in your end of the country and seems to not have an issue with primary when needed

 

[jimboalee]

Is the average speed of traffic in London less than in the sticks?

Is this why when a stretch of clear road appears, Mr Motorist tries to make best advantage of it?

When traffic congregates and slows, the cyclist who rides in primary is making less nuisance due to his ability to ride with the traffic?

Out in the sticks, where traffic moves easier and is on average, faster than round London?? a cyclist in Primary poses more of an obstruction to traffic flow??

This afternoon, on a short section of Birmingham's Outer Circle ( in the pissing down rain ), I was not able to keep with the traffic at 30 mph, so only went into Primary when the lane narrowed or where there was central bollards. All other times I was in secondary or letting traffic pass on clear stretches.

As you can detect, I am home now and in one piece.

 

[ttcycle]

I know your roads well - I would say the average speed limits are much higher- with 30/40 being average speeds. In London - central bit the limits can vary but you do tend to move with the flow of the traffic if not faster and making better progress then cars due to the sheer amount of drivers. What you describe above ie going into primary when the lane narrows etc is simply what some of us have been doing. Primary can be kept to mostly as I guess (when I was fitter -ahah) that I could average 18mph-20mph if on a very good day on the quieter roads and would be making the same progress as cars- of course you always get the odd twat who speeds and thinks he's the only important thing on the road. I know that cycling in Brum and down here are different but what you desc above is what most of us do.

 

[BentMikey]

Ah, you are slowly getting the idea. Primary when appropriate, and secondary when appropriate too.

 

[jimboalee]

Ah, you are slowly getting the idea. Primary when appropriate, and secondary when appropriate too.

I've been slowly getting the idea since 1971 when my parents let me out of my own neighbourhood to see the delights of Stratford upon Avon and taste the delights of the ice cream shop in Henley in Arden.

There wasn't any 'Primary' and 'Secondary' back then. The policeman who came to give us our National Cycling Proficiency lessons told us to 'keep to the left at all times'.

But on the town's roads and the road through Henley where the lanes narrowed, it was called "move across ( into the middle ) to stop the bastards pushing you into the curb"

A bunch of twelve year olds riding through a town main street like they 'owned the road'? That's not what the copper said, but it was safer.

Nowadays, I ride any one of several bikes. One is dead slow and I can't be dawdling around in the middle ( only when I NEED to stop the bastards pushing me into the curb ) for very long. So it's mainly on the left, and when conditions dictate, slow to let the motorists through.

 

[BentMikey]

So if you do believe in cyclecraft after all, why this long topic arguing points with which you agree? Or are you just on a silly windup mission? Let's face it, you haven't done your CC reputation any good at all here.

 

[ttcycle]

So if you do believe in cyclecraft after all, why this long topic arguing points with which you agree? Or are you just on a silly windup mission? Let's face it, you haven't done your CC reputation any good at all here.

That's right...you're contradicting yourself/backtracking like there's not tommorow