Being yelled at and perceptions of cyclists....

[tdr1nka]

Yes, of course there is a need for a book like Cyclecraft, as I have said, and others will testify, not everyone comes to cycling via a club or an internet forum and not all about cycling is common sense to every individual.

What is so diabolical about there simply being approved guidelines for those new to cycling on the roads or is it the fact you didn't think of jotting it all down a publishing 'The Book On Cycling' yourself?

The only wretched thing is the one thing you continually fail to admit, that most drivers are woefully and inadequately educated as to how to share the road with cyclists or even how we are encouraged to ride for our own safety.

All I hear in your posts is a brooding malcontent shaking his fist at modern and revised approaches to the way he has always cycled.

As you have proven in your posts, you use and approve of the 'Primary' & 'Secondary' positioning when it is used in an appropriate context by the individual concerned.

So I would say it is disingenuous, to say the least, to generalise that all those who ride, sometimes predominantly, in a Primary position are in some way deliberately holding up traffic and should accept any resulting grief from drivers.

You have only your experience which is valid but you are in no position(primary or secondary)to judge others who use these road positionings to good and regular effect and without annoying drivers when doing so.

I think we're on the same page only you feel the need to trash Cyclecraft simply because it just doesn't say things the way you want to hear them.
It's like you're still refusing to go decimal or something.

There is enough negativity out there toward cyclists without you encouraging cyclists away from some of the better sources of safety and HC information available to them.

 

[boydj]

I have just ridden in such a situation riding back from my son's.

I put out of my head ( totally forgot any notion of 'primary' and 'secondary' ) all that Franklin's book suggests; and rode to a style I adopted years before Franklin thought of his wretched book.

What you have described could have been me this afternoon. Signalling, moving across to the centre out of the doorswing and riding along past the parked cars.
Does it really need a book to ride past a row of parked cars?

As a matter of fact, the roads around my home town were lined with parked cars when I was seven, and I twigged this method of riding past them without needing to study a book.

So why have we had umpteen pages of you whinging about 'primary' when it seems pretty clear that nobody spends any more time in the 'primary' position than they deem necessary to get past the more dangerous parts of their route? Have you ever seen anybody unnecessarily holding primary in heavy traffic? I certainly haven't!

While the terminology might not be the most intuitive, its use in teaching road positioning in traffic makes sense when properly explained and therefore makes for a useful shorthand for an instructor.

 

[jimboalee]

Yes, of course there is a need for a book like Cyclecraft, as I have said, and others will testify, not everyone comes to cycling via a club or an internet forum and not all about cycling is common sense to every individual.

What is so diabolical about there simply being approved guidelines for those new to cycling on the roads or is it the fact you didn't think of jotting it all down a publishing 'The Book On Cycling' yourself?

The only wretched thing is the one thing you continually fail to admit, that most drivers are woefully and inadequately educated as to how to share the road with cyclists or even how we are encouraged to ride for our own safety.

All I hear in your posts is a brooding malcontent shaking his fist at modern and revised approaches to the way he has always cycled.

As you have proven in your posts, you use and approve of the 'Primary' & 'Secondary' positioning when it is used in an appropriate context by the individual concerned.

So I would say it is disingenuous, to say the least, to generalise that all those who ride, sometimes predominantly, in a Primary position are in some way deliberately holding up traffic and should accept any resulting grief from drivers.

You have only your experience which is valid but you are in no position(primary or secondary)to judge others who use these road positionings to good and regular effect and without annoying drivers when doing so.

I think we're on the same page only you feel the need to trash Cyclecraft simply because it just doesn't say things the way you want to hear them.
It's like you're still refusing to go decimal or something.

There is enough negativity out there toward cyclists without you encouraging cyclists away from some of the better sources of safety and HC information available to them.

Very well put.

I'll ride to CycleCraft this coming week. I'm flicking through it now.

Bet you Half a Crown I get shouted at.

 

[tdr1nka]

You're not supposed to read it while you're actually riding btw.

 

[ttcycle]

Jimbo, the issue of being shouted out is not the fault of primary - it is bad attitude from drivers who do not think cyclists should be using the same roads as they are. That is a misguided opinion and is something separate to primary/secondary.

The only way this will change is more cyclists on the road-ie the idea of critical mass (the only effect increasing safety is higher number of cyclists) and basically, if people cycle well and believe and know it to be safe then the rest falls into place. Challenge those numb skulls with the pathetic attitude and doing it while riding well and with politeness.

Enjoy the read jimbo

 

[Rhythm Thief]

The only way this will change is more cyclists on the road-ie the idea of critical mass ...

Now that's another debate altogether ...

 

[marinyork]

Talking of this thread, I had my first aggressive experience in London yesterday and that was more or less being in primary ala Jimboalee . Wonderful stuff.

 

[ttcycle]

Now that's another debate altogether ...

of course, I do mean it in the sense of the term critical mass rather than the group rides 'critical mass' just to be clear.

Sorry to hear that Marin - ah well- stupid motorist..what were you doing down here?

 

[Rhythm Thief]

of course, I do mean it in the sense of the term critical mass rather than the group rides 'critical mass' just to be clear.

Riiiiight, sorry. In that case I quite agree.

 

[marinyork]

I went to see a musical yesterday and being an insane sensible person used the best form of transport to get across london which was again pretty enjoyable. I was surprised by the level of traffic further out in west london though and I think that was where the frustration was at . Apart from a squareabout it was a pretty good experience.

 

[ttcycle]

Glad to hear it wasn't too bad. Though musicals? hmmm?!

 

[BentMikey]

and rode to a style I adopted years before Franklin thought of his wretched book.

Don't blame Franklin - it's not his book that's wretched in this topic.

 

[thomas]

The only way this will change is more cyclists on the road-ie the idea of critical mass (the only effect increasing safety is higher number of cyclists) and basically, if people cycle well and believe and know it to be safe then the rest falls into place. Challenge those numb skulls with the pathetic attitude and doing it while riding well and with politeness.

I believe that critical mass as a term (rather than just the cycle event) is also to do with the idea that if there is enough that group can push through.

So at junctions, when there is a backlog the side with most traffic can force there way across in a 'critical mass'....so even that could have negative connotations.

Certainly, the more of us on the roads, the less problems we will have.

ps: Critical mass has been fun 50% of the times I've done it.....twice

 

[jimboalee]

I went to see a musical yesterday and being an insane sensible person used the best form of transport to get across london which was again pretty enjoyable. I was surprised by the level of traffic further out in west london though and I think that was where the frustration was at . Apart from a squareabout it was a pretty good experience.

That didn't happen to be Hanger Lane Gyratory?

 

[jimboalee]

Pointless.

One hour's ride to work and I counted four trucks and seventeen cars.

Most of the time I was riding along deserted country road.

I could have zig-zaged in and out of the centre Cat's Eyes and returned to 'secondary' when I detected a pair of headlamps aproaching from the rear.

Maybe there'll be more traffic this evening.

Jimbo 1 - 0 Motorists