Best way to deal with bad driving?

[nicasiri]

Perhaps the rules are different in the US or Disneyland or Central Park or your own febrile imagination (I don't know, wherever it is that you actually do any cycling) but in the UK there is not actually any requirement that a motorist has to pass a cyclist simply because the cyclist is ahead. It's completely optional: no compulsion whatsoever. You do get the occasional car driver that is apparently unaware of this, but they are quite simply wrong.

Yeah, ok. Like I said a long way back, you want to own the road, so do cars.

We have narrow roads in the US as well, everyone does. City streets also have a lower MPH here. I'm sorry but you're not as unique as you think you are.

The streets I saw this on were not in the downtown of the city itself. They weren't one way streets, but streets with only one lane going each way, and quite narrow. Maybe it's all 10 mph, but no one including the cyclists appeared to be going only 10mph on the streets I'm referring to.

You want to change how motorists drive. You want them to adhere to you. You want to own the road. Ok, go for it.

Arrogance kills. So does stupidity. You think you're bigger than cars are. Or that you don't have to be courteous to them as well. Of course they want to pass you. You want to pass them too, that's why so many cyclists squeeze up ahead between cars and go to the front.

When you say things like this, and attempt to insult me, and my riding, all I think is you're an idiot, who just wants to own the road, not share it.

 

[ianrauk]

I know that's not your point, so let me just say this - I have been agreeing with you all along that you have a lot of cyclists on the road there. That may be part of the problem, however, not all your cyclists are good cyclists in terms of practicing safety themselves. Just sayin'...

So too many cyclists may be a problem? Jesus wept.
You are indeed correct that not all cyclists are good cyclists as not all car drivers are good car drivers and not all Peds are good Peds. Do you understand that? More people are injured and killed by car drivers and motor accidents. That is where you should be focusing your ire. Not focusing on a few bad cyclists.

 

[ianrauk]

You want to change how motorists drive. You want them to adhere to you. You want to own the road. Ok, go for it.

That is exactly what is happening here but you refuse to listen.

 

[nicasiri]

That is exactly what is happening here but you refuse to listen.

Actually I think it's you who doesn't listen, or you have selective hearing. I've said repeatedly that cyclists need to cycle defensively because there are so many sh**ty drivers on the road.

And you twist everything I say, it's really quite tiring. All cyclists should practice safe cycling, for their own benefit, as well as the rest of ours. It's really annoying that you don't think they should. I don't know what you're advocating for exactly here.

You're advocating for a takeover. Ok. But you still have to get along with motorists. This is why I think you have a war going on. Because you want to own the road.

You're not changing the way drivers drive, Ian. You may think you are, but it's not true. That's why you're still complaining about bad drivers. Because they're everywhere. And they always will be.

 

[Dan B]

When you say things like this, and attempt to insult me

I don't think it's an insult to point out that you clearly have no experience at all of what you're talking about. Judging cycling standards based on Youtube videos is about as sensible as judging Internet users based on Youtube comments

 

[ianrauk]

Actually I think it's you who doesn't listen, or you have selective hearing. I've said repeatedly that cyclists need to cycle defensively because there are so many sh**ty drivers on the road.

And you twist everything I say, it's really quite tiring. All cyclists should practice safe cycling, for their own benefit, as well as the rest of ours. It's really annoying that you don't think they should. I don't know what you're advocating for exactly here.

Grow up. I never said that at all. You are getting upset to be repeatedly told there is no war between cyclists and car drivers and it's not cyclists that is the problem. What I am advocating here is for people like yourselves to stop perpetuating a myth of a war and that you should be focusing on the far bigger threat of bad car driving.

Once again, more anecdata for you from someone who cycles in London. There are far more good cyclists on the road then bad. By tenfold. You really need to look at the bigger picture.

 

[nicasiri]

I don't think it's an insult to point out that you clearly have no experience at all of what you're talking about. Judging cycling standards based on Youtube videos is about as sensible as judging Internet users based on Youtube comments

I'm judging this also on what all of you are saying here too. I never said it was the "standard" either. I spoke only of what appeared to be bad safety practices on both sides, from what I observed, and that they were both feeding into each other. And causing a lot of mutual anger. That was affecting even good cyclists. I don't understand why you're so sensitive about this. And why you're so insistent that this never happens?

And if you go back through this thread you'll see I wasn't actually looking for cycling standards, more for what some of you were referring to as everyone being dressed in "yellow jackets" that were low contrast.

 

[nicasiri]

Grow up. I never said that at all. You are getting upset to be repeatedly told there is no war between cyclists and car drivers and it's not cyclists that is the problem. What I am advocating here is for people like yourselves to stop perpetuating a myth of a war and that you should be focusing on the far bigger threat of bad car driving.

Once again, more anecdata for you from someone who cycles in London. There are far more good cyclists on the road then bad. By tenfold. You really need to look at the bigger picture.

You really need to give it a rest here. You're advocating for owning the road. That's fine. But as I said a ways back, then just admit what you want. You even have admitted that here. And yet, you claim there's no war. You want a takeover, but no driver should mind. They just need to get used to it, because that's the way it's going to be.

You don't think that drivers are resistant to your insisting you own the road? You're either in deep denial or just oblivious to human nature or both. Frankly, I think you're the one who needs to not just grow up, but wake up.

And as I said to Dan above, I don't really get how you can deny there's bad cycling practices in London. There's bad cycling practices everywhere. And when you have more cyclists on the roads, it is logical that there would be more cyclists, who are not practicing good bike safety. You keep insisting that's not part of the problem. But bad safety practices all around are a problem. Cars, cyclists, everyone.

Better infrastructure is the #1 need everywhere. It's not whether cyclists or drivers own the road.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

It's tiresome. Really tiresome.

Every time a discussion arises seeking answers to the dangerous driving that goes on around people who cycle, someone turns it into a debate about wearing hi vis or helmets or riding defensively. It's a diversionary tactic that is as infuriating as it is predictable.

It doesn't matter what I wear or how I ride, bad drivers do what they do regardless and they (mostly) get away with it. In my opinion this is down to a lack of enforcement (we don't have enough police and they are stretched), a lack of interest on the part of prosecutors, the reluctance of juries to convict, and the often trivial sentences passed when, occasionally, someone is convicted.

I have two cases pending with the police where, despite me doing everything by the book and being vigilant, drivers put me at serious risk of injury. You can talk about 'sharing the road and responsibility' from now till doomsday but it'll still be bullshit.

A number of police forces are running something called Operation Close Pass, directed at drivers who don't give cyclists sufficient room when overtaking. Unmarked police cyclists will ride a route and alert uniformed colleagues when an offender gets too close. It started in one area and is slowly being taken up across the country, much to the annoyance of bad drivers who complain, "But what about bad cycling, not wearing hi vis,not wearing helmets? They all jump red lights. .. blah blah blah"

Here's what the police response was from the Road Policing Unit that started the initiative:
"Once we've stopped people being killed and seriously injured, maybe then we concentrate on those offenders who cause vexation rather than death."

So, they realise that it's a false equivalence to relate bad cycling to bad driving but it's still tough getting that through to a lot of people.

This is why, when you reiterate these tired clichés of yours, you get the reaction you've experienced on this thread.

 

[nicasiri]

This is why, when you reiterate these tired clichés of yours, you get the reaction you've experienced on this thread.

Well, listen, you're right. We can all agree this is tiresome. I never said the incidences are the same. Of course there's more bad driving. I've said repeatedly there are a lot of sh**tty drivers on the road. Sh**tty drivers affect not just cyclists, but pedestrians and other drivers as well. They're also bigger than we are.

What I said was that in London in particular, there appeared to be a real war between cyclists and drivers, moreso even than other cities and countries. And that, yes, there appeared to be bad practices on both sides. And that the bad cyclist behavior was making it worse for good cyclists. From what I observed. I didn't say anyone on here was a bad cyclist. I was just noting what I observed about a lot of mutual anger that was making it worse for the good cyclists.

Here's a comment from someone else, a London cyclist in another forum:

"davidlanen20 | Community Member | 1 year ago
I am a cyclist, and whenever I cycle I see cars speed, drive aggressively, break red lights, all the other things that are complained of. I also see cyclists acting irresponsibly - cycling on pavements, going the wrong way down one way streets, breaking red lights. Whenever I cycle, I assume that every car, van and lorry is likely to kill me, and ride accordingly. I also see cyclists taking very silly risks, often without helmets. Car and lorry drivers need to realise that they are not the only road users, and that compared to cyclists, they are safe in their metal box, but some cyclists need to help the cause by riding responsibly themselves, and quite a few cyclists could take fewer risks."

There are lots of comments like this from other London cyclists too in other forums. Maybe they're all wrong too, or maybe everyone's making it up, because they're out to get London cyclists, and all the videos and comments are all just rigged, I don't know.

But again, what's needed is better infrastructure. I don't really think the need is to prove who owns the road.

 

[sheddy]

Meanwhile, lobby your County Police Commissioner to introduce a reporting scheme like Operation Crackdown
https://webcontact.sussex.police.uk/ASDPRS/

 

[davidphilips]

A number of police forces are running something called Operation Close Pass, directed at drivers who don't give cyclists sufficient room when overtaking. Unmarked police cyclists will ride a route and alert uniformed colleagues when an offender gets too close. It started in one area and is slowly being taken up across the country.

Now thats like good news, thank you for sharing it. Lets hope with even a few convictions the good news will spread and perhaps more drivers will treat cyclists with respect.

 

[Levo-Lon]

I've got a loud voice, so when recently a boy racer passed me very close and at speed, then immediately skidded to turn left across me, I shouted "How are you getting on with your tiny penis?" I heard laughter from the passenger seat.

No, I didn't make the world a better place, but it made me feel better and made someone laugh. And possibly slightly humiliated someone who may - just may - think a little more next time.

Funny how little things make you laugh..

When i was cycling home from school ,i was 16 .
I was waiting at the lights and along side pulls up jack the lad with 3 mates in a Dollamite sprint "pre XR3 knob poseur car"
Driver shouts at me " id like to shag your arse!!
I looked at his car and said i dont do triumph drivers sorry.

His mates roared..

 

[Moderators]

We see that the last few posts are getting the thread back on track. Well done to those members.

Will everyone else please follow their lead. No more arguing about whether there is a war on the road. Anyone who continues after this point will be removed from the conversation.

 

[spen666]

I think there is this method for dealing with bad driving

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4723128/BBC-wildlife-producer-shocking-road-rage-rant.html