Best way to deal with bad driving?

[ianrauk]

The problem is when you refuse to move into single and let a car pass. Yeah, you have to share the road. You and the cars there both seem to think you own it, and personally I think you're making things worse for yourself in this all out war you seem to have created. From what I saw on many videos, cyclists in London are pretty reckless and like I said, weave in and out of cars, ride the wrong way on roads, run traffic lights regularly, shoot the finger to drivers, when they're actually in the wrong. Of course, that's not everyone. But THE PROBLEM IS IT EFFECTS ALL OF YOU. It seems to be a relatively large issue, at least in London. Not sure why so many cyclists refuse to ride on the bikeways that were built there either. I saw one video where a police officer told a group of cyclists they should get on the bike path and they refused to do so. They mouthed off to the officer, who was attempting to help them. The bikeway was right there. So yeah, I don't get it...

You can search you tube for as many anti cyclist videos as you like...I can quite happily show you even more of crappy drivers breaking laws. Once again, its not UK law that you have to use bike lanes. What part of 'cyclists are also traffic' is it that you dont understand?
What other cyclists do or dont do has no bearing or effect on me. The same as what some car drivers do or dont do has no bearing or effect on other car drivers.
Have you ever used or in fact seen the terrible state of some of the cycle lanes in London? No you havent.
I cycle in London every single day of the week and at weekends. So If you want anecdotes then let me tell you. Reckless car drivers far outweigh reckless cyclists ten fold. There is no war so you can quit now with that nonsence hyperbole.

 

[nicasiri]

What part of 'cyclists are also traffic' is it that you dont understand?

I understand this just fine. What I don't understand is you complain about needing better infrastructure to solve the problem. When you get it, you refuse to use it. That's what doesn't make sense to me...

Also, I didn't search Youtube for anti-cyclist videos. I was looking in London at videos taken from both sides...

What other cyclists do or dont do has no bearing or effect on me. The same as what some car drivers do or dont do has no bearing or effect on other car drivers.

I'm sorry but this is a very naive statement.

Have you ever used or in fact seen the terrible state of some of the cycle lanes in London? No you havent.
I cycle in London every single day of the week and at weekends. So If you want anecdotes then let me tell you. Reckless car drivers far outweigh reckless cyclists ten fold. There is no war so you can quit now with that nonsence hyperbole.

Ok, sounds good. You continue your war with drivers. It seems to have helped a lot thus far. Anyway, I wish you all the best.

 

[ianrauk]

I understand this just fine. What I don't understand is you complain about needing better infrastructure to solve the problem. When you get it, you refuse to use it. That's what doesn't make sense to me...

Better infrastructure.. not crap infrastructure that is installed without consultation with cycling groups and organisations but is put in place as some sort of vanity project of incumbent government officials. And as far as I remember, I never asked for or wanted it.

I'm sorry but this is a very naive statement.

Your opinion. Of which is wrong. It may be how it works and is where you are, but not here. I certainly don't tar all car drivers with the same brush if I see one that is acting like a cock as much as I know that colleagues of mine don't tar all cyclists with the same brush. So give that one a rest ok.

Ok, sounds good. You continue your war with drivers. It seems to have helped a lot thus far. Anyway, I wish you all the best.

And there you go again with this fictitious war between drivers and cyclists. Obviously, you being from outside the UK know far better then someone who cycles in London every day. I will tell you again. There is no war with drivers.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

@nicasiri Do you have any constructive suggestions how to deal with bad driving, aside from telling the victims of that bad driving to dress brightly and keep out of the way?

 

[nicasiri]

Your opinion. Of which is wrong.

My opinion's wrong. LOL. Ok.

There is no war with drivers.

What would you call it?

 

[ianrauk]

My opinion's wrong. LOL. Ok.



What would you call it?

As I said before, hyperbole nonsense by people who really haven't a clue.

 

[nicasiri]

@nicasiri Do you have any constructive suggestions how to deal with bad driving, aside from telling the victims of that bad driving to dress brightly and keep out of the way?

I said cycle defensively, not keep out of the way.

How do you tell car drivers to deal with bad drivers? You tell them to drive defensively.

You're living in a fairy tale if you think you're going to change how all drivers drive.

I've also said 100 times here - better infrastructure is the #1 problem. Advocating for that is important. But it seems in London when you get it, that's not enough either for some. So I don't know how you should solve your problem. I'm not even entirely sure you want to.

 

[nicasiri]

As I said before, hyperbole nonsense by people who really haven't a clue.

Sure, ok...

 

[nicasiri]

Quite honestly, I think you guys want to own the roads. I don't know that you want to share them. So maybe you will one day.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I said cycle defensively, not keep out of the way.

What you wrote was

You ride 2 or 3 next to each other, so cars can't pass you.

The problem is when you refuse to move into single and let a car pass

Not sure why so many cyclists refuse to ride on the bikeways that were built there either

...which is expecting riders to keep out of the way.

I made a few suggestions up thread about dealing with bad driving via enforcement and sentencing.

I've also said 100 times here - better infrastructure is the #1 problem. Advocating for that is important. But it seems in London when you get it, that's not enough either for some.

When good infrastructure is provided, it is used. Just look at the many videos of the new protected CSH routes in London and how people of all ages and abilities are thronging to them.

Guess what happens when crap infrastructure is provided.

 

[nicasiri]

What you wrote was

...which is expecting riders to keep out of the way.

I made a few suggestions up thread about dealing with bad driving via enforcement and sentencing.

No, it's not expecting them to keep out of the way. It's moving into single file to let a car pass, because yes cars do travel faster than bicycles. When you're driving slower than the car behind you, you also move out of the way to let the car pass.

And because, look, you're dealing with human nature, and that's what it appears to me you're trying to change. People get pissed when they have to go slow and wait for things.

Drivers don't go to jail for cutting off other drivers either. Maybe they will in your country though. I wish you all the best with that.

The group's attitude overall though seems to be cyclists shouldn't be punished for bad cycling or making mistakes, only drivers should. I think that speaks to the war you guys have between yourself and drivers. (Though I know no war really exists here.)

You want to be treated like equal motorists, but only when it's convenient.

When good infrastructure is provided, it is used. Just look at the many videos of the new protected CSH routes in London and how people of all ages and abilities are thronging to them.

Guess what happens when crap infrastructure is provided.

Not true that it's always used. I believe I was referring to when it wasn't... In the case I was referring to, some cyclists were using the bikeway. Others weren't. Because they didn't think they should have to.

Like I said, I don't think you're looking to compromise. You appear to want to own the road. Maybe that's possible. But we should be honest about the goals here.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

In the case I was referring to, some cyclists were using the bikeway. Others weren't. Because they didn't think they should have to.

Do you know that or are you guessing?

The group's attitude overall though seems to be cyclists shouldn't be punished for bad cycling or making mistakes, only drivers should.

I think your imagination is running away with you.

The topic, which you seem to be steadfastly avoiding, is how to deal with bad driving - but you want to focus on what you consider to be bad cycling instead.

 

[nicasiri]

Do you know that or are you guessing?

They were all there visible in the video... What would I be guessing about?

I think your imagination is running away with you.

The topic, which you seem to be steadfastly avoiding, is how to deal with bad driving - but you want to focus on what you consider to be bad cycling instead.

Well, actually I've made quite a few suggestions on "how to deal with bad driving". What I haven't made is suggestions on how to "change" bad driving. That's what you're doing. This is where we disagree.

I think you're going to have a hard time trying to change all driver behavior. It's a bit of a fantasy in my mind. And in addition, I'm pointing out that if you want to change bad driver behavior, you also need to equally look at bad cyclist behavior. The two are feeding into each other, and making it worse for the rest of you, from what I observed, is what I've been trying to say.

 

[Dave Davenport]

I've only browsed it but this thread looks fun! Anyroad, in answer to the OP's question; Nuke 'em from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

They were all there visible in the video... What would I be guessing about?

This:

Because they didn't think they should have to.