Billions of air pollution particles found in the hearts of city dwellers

[Dogtrousers]

Oh, come off it, hardly a useful comparison is it.

Walking down the shops* I was trying to think of a reasonable response to that post. I think you did a better job of it than I would.

*To buy some processed and packaged crap that I don't really need

 

[mudsticks]

Walking down the shops* I was trying to think of a reasonable response to that post. I think you did a better job of it than I would.

*To buy some processed and packaged crap that I don't really need

De nada..

 

[Globalti]

Believe it or not the Chinese authorities are making efforts to reduce pollution by closing down their dirtiest factories. This is one of several reasons why the stuff you buy in the shops keeps increasing in price.

 

[mudsticks]

Believe it or not the Chinese authorities are making efforts to reduce pollution by closing down their dirtiest factories. This is one of several reasons why the stuff you buy in the shops keeps increasing in price.

They are also having a big drive to encourage organic growing, and soil conservation.
They understand the science, and can see the folly of destroying the very thing upon which we all depend for our food.

I'm no fan of the suppressive totalitarian way things are run, but encouraging good farming seems like a fairly benign element of that.

 

[Drago]

Believe it or not the Chinese authorities are making efforts to reduce pollution by...

...burning less dissidents?

I don't subscribe to the "I can pollute as much as I like because India/China/The Vatican (delete to taste) are dirty sods" school of thought. If everyone trotted out that excuse were would be doomed, inexorably sliding towards the death of the planets biosphere. As things currently stand there is a chance, albeit a slim one, that if some people start to behave responsibly then others might eventually follow, that our species might survive.

The trendy environmentalists, the ones who drive a Pious but then fly 200,000 miles a year (I'm looking at you, Emma Thomspon) need taking to task and dealing with, and that will only happen if more and more people start to take responsibility and lead by real example, and not telling others to do as they as but not as they do.

 

[Dogtrousers]

I don't subscribe to the "I can pollute as much as I like because India/China/The Vatican (delete to taste) are dirty sods" school of thought.

Indeed. That's like saying "I can post as much cobblers on here as I like because Drago does"

 

[mudsticks]

...burning less dissidents?

I don't subscribe to the "I can pollute as much as I like because India/China/The Vatican (delete to taste) are dirty sods" school of thought. If everyone trotted out that excuse were would be doomed, inexorably sliding towards the death of the planets biosphere. As things currently stand there is a chance, albeit a slim one, that if some people start to behave responsibly then others might eventually follow, that our species might survive.

The trendy environmentalists, the ones who drive a Pious but then fly 200,000 miles a year (I'm looking at you, Emma Thomspon) need taking to task and dealing with, and that will only happen if more and more people start to take responsibility and lead by real example, and not telling others to do as they as but not as they do.

The trouble is Emma Thompson gets listened to (for some reason)

Those of us who have taken one short flight in 26 years.. Done our utmost to live a green life through our jobs, housing, transport, setting up projects campaigning, and activism, often for decades have been derided as 'nonsense spouting eco warriors'

Its the publications, governments, and companies who have tried to dismiss environmentalism as irrelevant that are the criminals.

If we as ordinary folk, or scientists, talk about these issues we are dismissed, as 'trendy' or 'banging on'

if we don't we aren't doing anything.. What are we supposed to do??

These issues, the science and solutions have been around for a very long time, and barely anyone was interested.. We were laughed at as cranks, for our 'alternative lifestyles' and unrealistic ideas.. Even though we were facing up to reality, and trying to do something.

Emma Thompson isn't the problem, at least she talks about the problems, and I'm sure would be first to se the dissonance between what she says and does.
But if a few more people listen to her, rather than some scrubby organic farming, green campaigning 'nobody' like me, then that's a symptom of 'celebrity culture'.

It's not our fault that people are impressed by stuff like that rather than science, knowledge, and people developing and practicing alternative ways of doing things, is it??

It's deeply frustrating to those of us who could see all this coming decades back..
But what we're we to do??

No one (with power or influence) was really listening, or could see the necessity for change..

 

[Drago]

Emma Thompson and her ilk is a massive problem. Aside from the disproportionate levels of pollution they themselves account for, the gross inconsistency between their message and their actual behaviour gives the Daily Mail masses huge reason to point fingers, and provides them with all the justification they need not to modify their own behaviour. Flying halfway across a planet to tell people not to fly so much, and then flying back, gave the DM types all the reason they needed to carry on as normal.

Don't make the mistake of underestimating the DM reading masses - the last time someone did that we got a Brexit. The influence and opinion of that particular class of citizens is huge, and all ET and her chums are doing is giving them ammunition to entrench their views and carry on driving their cars 400 metres each way to school daily. This is the same mistake the Remain campaign made - if you don't take them along with you, then you've lost. If you ain't Lilly white when preaching at the pulpit, then you will, without a shadow of a doubt, face a backlash that easily swamps your own message.

The behaviour of these self appointed mass consumer environmental preachers is hugely damaging to the cause. History will look very unkindly upon their interventions, and is already starting to do so.

 

[mustang1]

The people who live in these polluting cities obviously care more about their jobs than they do about their health.

Or, they are too poor to move out. So that leaves those who are able to move out, still don't.
"Why should WE move out?" they will protest. "Move the pollution out!"

So in the future the pollution has moved out and everyone is happy. Bit they lost their jobs and have to move to another place to find work. Only thing is that this other place is a city, and pollution is on the rise again! But they do not care, they have to make a choice, they have to work.

And then the following generation says "hold on a minute, why we got all this pollution?" And so the cycle continues.

I wish it was that simple: that we can just ban oil powered cars and vans. Tbh I see very few cars in the city. I see Uber hybrids and then I see lorries and vans. Loads of them. Maybe we should target those vehicles and have hybrids like we now have hybrid buses.

 

[mudsticks]

Emma Thompson and her ilk is a massive problem. Aside from the disproportionate levels of pollution they themselves account for, the gross inconsistency between their message and their actual behaviour gives the Daily Mail masses huge reason to point fingers, and provides them with all the justification they need not to modify their own behaviour. Flying halfway across a planet to tell people not to fly so much, and then flying back, gave the DM types all the reason they needed to carry on as normal.

Don't make the mistake of underestimating the DM reading masses - the last time someone did that we got a Brexit. The influence and opinion of that particular class of citizens is huge, and all ET and her chums are doing is giving them ammunition to entrench their views and carry on driving their cars 400 metres each way to school daily. This is the same mistake the Remain campaign made - if you don't take them along with you, then you've lost. If you ain't Lilly white when preaching at the pulpit, then you will, without a shadow of a doubt, face a backlash that easily swamps your own message.

The behaviour of these self appointed mass consumer environmental preachers is hugely damaging to the cause. History will look very unkindly upon their interventions, and is already starting to do so.

So what do we do..

Tell Emma Thompson to go away, until she's properly green enough.

She has a platform, as does David Attenborough, who doubtless flies too.

I as a practical farmer, who is doing the 'better' farming stood on a box with a microphone, next to that pink boat in Oxford Circus, and spoke to a very receptive crowd about the need for us to change the way we do farming, if we are to address the climate crisis.

As did many others, many from sub Saharan Africa, and Bangladesh, where the problems are really biting already.

Generally well received, well said, well done, keep up the good work, yes let's address this.

Emma Thompson does same, about similar issues..

Who gets the media coverage??

It's not our fault that people have 'Daily Fail' attitudes, is it.??

I ask again, what on earth are we supposed to do to get our uncomfortable, message across to people who won't listen, and don't want to hear??

 

[Dogtrousers]

It's probably been said above but personal ownership of electric vehicles will achieve little. Sure it'll lower NOx and some other pollutants in heavily populated areas. But that's not everything.

Part of the mix has to be a change away from mass private ownership of vehicles and a move to shared transport,other means of transport and purchase of transport services as and when required. Part of the mix has to be accepting reduced mobility.

 

[ColinJ]

Replaced the pollen filter on my car recently. It's not done many miles in the last few years, but is now used on city commutes.

It was disgustingly black. Hate the fact that's happened, but I wont be on the bike anymore into Manchester. Done my time trying to cycle commute safely into Manchester. Too many injuries.

I had a flat above a shop on Chapel Street, Salford. Double decker buses used to stop right next to the flat and passengers would stare in so I put net curtains up in my windows. I never opened the windows facing the street because of noise and fumes from the traffic but enough pollution still got in to make the insides of the windows black within a week. I had to wash the net curtains twice a month. That was back in the mid-1980s and I bet just as bad or worse now!

 

[fossyant]

I had a flat above a shop on Chapel Street, Salford. Double decker buses used to stop right next to the flat and passengers would stare in so I put net curtains up in my windows. I never opened the windows facing the street because of noise and fumes from the traffic but enough pollution still got in to make the insides of the windows black within a week. I had to wash the net curtains twice a month. That was back in the mid-1980s and I bet just as bad or worse now!

They have to regularly replace an air filter on one of the buildings on Oxford Road Manchester - it's really nasty I believe (Europe's busiest bus route)

 

[ColinJ]