Blind corner overtaking

[Milkfloat]

The photo is a representation of my view.
At this point I was conscious of the overtaking car being level with my back wheel.
It was half way past at the point where the nose of the silver car in the drive is.

Paul G

View attachment 147779

If someone is overtaking round that corner then you are leaving them too much space. I would be right in the middle of the road, preventing any overtake but moving in as the apex comes up so I don't get splatted by an oncoming vehicle. By doing this I should hopefully hold people behind me for both our safety and if the worse comes to the worse I have space to bail into.

 

[Phil Fouracre]

Interesting thread, this has been the subject of much discussion between us recently. Riding on mainly narrowish roads locally, as in the incident posted, no white lines, we see a lot of this happening. Yes I always try keeping out sufficiently to stop daft overtakes, but, it can sometimes not deter them, no matter how far out you ride. How do you judge if the driver is sufficiently bright to work out what you are doing, or, a complete psychopath - there really is no way of knowing, decide what your life is worth :-(
I've been 'playing a game' recently, on some of our local roads, where you can have a car approaching from behind, yes, and listening to engine and tyres to work out their intention. If you can then hear a car coming towards you, the aim is to time the twunt behind you deciding to push their way past on a blind bend just in time to meet the opposing car!! The first time it happened it really did surprise me, and, I put it down to just a 'lucky' coincidence, now, it seems to be happening more often! Any suggestions as to why? Driving and anticipation skills really getting worse?

 

[Milkfloat]

I've been 'playing a game' recently, on some of our local roads, where you can have a car approaching from behind, yes, and listening to engine and tyres to work out their intention. If you can then hear a car coming towards you, the aim is to time the twunt behind you deciding to push their way past on a blind bend just in time to meet the opposing car!!

I would say that only one person is going to get hurt in this situation and it is not likely to be the driver that caused the problem.

 

[smutchin]

If someone is overtaking round that corner then you are leaving them too much space.

Not necessarily. I think the only way you can absolutely guarantee no one trying to overtake on a bend like that is to ride so far out from the kerb that you risk hitting oncoming traffic yourself. And even then there will probably be some muppet who tries it on.

This is a blind bend near my home, so one that I ride through regularly:

I usually ride well away from the kerb through this bend - such that it would be impossible for a car to overtake without crossing the solid white line, which as any fule kno is not only dangerous, it's illegal. And since the bend is at the bottom of a hill, I'm usually doing upwards of 20mph when I hit the bend (on a road with a 40 limit).

And yet still drivers still insist on overtaking.

When coming the other way, I have also been faced with overtaking drivers well over on my side of the road as I reach the bend. Bloody terrifying. And there is absolutely nothing I can do to prevent them doing that.

Here's another bend further along the same road:

It's not clear from the picture but the road gets quite narrow through the bend, and it is sharper than it looks too. It strikes me as utter madness that anyone would overtake on this bend - especially knowing that traffic coming the other way is coming down a steep hill and often travelling well in excess of the 40 limit.

There is no way it is safe to overtake a cyclist on this bend, regardless of where they are positioned, whether they're hugging the kerb or out in primary position.

And yet idiots do overtake.

In theory, I would be happy to ride right out in the middle of the road to discourage them, but I'd be worried about being hit by overtakers coming in the opposite direction.

You may not be surprised to learn that both bends are notorious locally as accident blackspots.

 

[mythste]

I really do feel for some of you guys and I simply can't fathom the idea that this is such a frequent issue for you.

I've covered almost 4000 miles this year (I know that's a drop in the ocean for some, but still some hours on the road!) and even when I haven't taken the initiative to take a strong primary cars typically wait until it's safe to pass before doing so. I can literally only remember one incident in the last year when I felt anything like endangered by another driver, and thinking back, even then I could have been more pro-active about stopping it happening in the first instance.

I really do hope you all have many a safe ride from here on!

 

[smutchin]

I really do feel for some of you guys and I simply can't fathom the idea that this is such a frequent issue for you.

You may just be lucky not to have any particularly bad spots on the roads you ride regularly. Or live in an area populated by more considerate drivers - IMO, it's not the roads that are the problem, it's the people who use them. And round here, we have more than our fair share of aggressive and selfish drivers.

The two examples in my last post are by far the worst I have to deal with. Unfortunately, they are both within a mile of my home, so it's hard for me to avoid them by taking a different route without adding several miles to my journey.

 

[snorri]

It's caused by the fact it's in Essex. Happened to me a lot there too, hardly ever happens now I'm in Cheshire

Cheshire must be bucking the trend!
"Deaths are disproportionately likely to occur on rural roads: in 2013, they carried 53 per cent of traffic, but accounted for around two thirds of road deaths. A similar split has been seen over the last decade. Mile-for-mile, the risk of death on rural roads is around 1.7 times that on urban roads and around 2 per cent of reported accidents on rural roads are fatal, compared to less than 1 per cent in urban areas"
Extracted from .....
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/358040/rrcgb2013-01.pdf
Although the data is from 2013, that year was no different to any other.

 

[snorri]

I really do feel for some of you guys and I simply can't fathom the idea that this is such a frequent issue for you.

It depends on type of roads people are using and proportion of time spent on the different types.

 

[Tanis8472]

I become aware that a car is approaching, so if there's a pothole or road debris, or if I need to overtake another cyclist, I will slow down and not veer to the centre of the lane... even if I had the radar, I would still check, but this takes some of the stress away.

It's like having a bike satnav ..... you don't need one as you can use maps, but it makes life easier and the journey more pleasant

I don't have the radar thingy yet, but will update when I get it.

I find it the complete opposite no matter what mode of transport.
I find myself telling the satnav to f off quite often lol

 

[dim]

I find it the complete opposite no matter what mode of transport.
I find myself telling the satnav to f off quite often lol

Thats because you know where you are going ..... I have no sense of direction, and even get lost in my village.

 

[mythste]

You may just be lucky not to have any particularly bad spots on the roads you ride regularly. Or live in an area populated by more considerate drivers - IMO, it's not the roads that are the problem, it's the people who use them. And round here, we have more than our fair share of aggressive and selfish drivers.

The two examples in my last post are by far the worst I have to deal with. Unfortunately, they are both within a mile of my home, so it's hard for me to avoid them by taking a different route without adding several miles to my journey.

I suppose I'm used to commuting through cities where there are a reasonably large proportion of people who know to be on edge. My weekend riding usually takes me deep into countryside where the same attitude probably applies.

Suburban miss-placed confidence perhaps? I guess if Captain 9-5 knows he can make it home in 26 minutes in his rep-mobile from the business park office to home he's going to presume he knows the roads and a cyclist might "pop up" on otherwise memorized traffic?

 

[smutchin]

I suppose I'm used to commuting through cities where there are a reasonably large proportion of people who know to be on edge. My weekend riding usually takes me deep into countryside where the same attitude probably applies.

Overtaking on blind bends is very much a suburban/rural problem. Riding in cities brings a whole different set of idiotic behaviours.

Suburban miss-placed confidence perhaps? I guess if Captain 9-5 knows he can make it home in 26 minutes in his rep-mobile from the business park office to home he's going to presume he knows the roads and a cyclist might "pop up" on otherwise memorized traffic?

Yeah, there's probably something in that. If you drive the same route to and from work every day, know where the bends are and generally know what to expect traffic-wise, you will become complacent and maybe take risks that you wouldn't take on roads you don't know so well.

Such complacency always leaves you at risk of being caught out eventually.

 

[Tanis8472]

Thats because you know where you are going ..... I have no sense of direction, and even get lost in my village.

Nope, no idea most of the time. Its called using a map and the missus to read it lol

 

[mythste]

Overtaking on blind bends is very much a suburban/rural problem. Riding in cities brings a whole different set of idiotic behaviours.



Yeah, there's probably something in that. If you drive the same route to and from work every day, know where the bends are and generally know what to expect traffic-wise, you will become complacent and maybe take risks that you wouldn't take on roads you don't know so well.

Such complacency always leaves you at risk of being caught out eventually.

Complacency! That's the word I was looking for throughout that entire post!

TFIF.

I really do wish you all safe riding, I can see how frustrating and dangerous that can be.

 

[Wobblers]

Your mistake is assuming substitute rather than supplement.



You are a bat AICMFP.

Yes, sound does travel around corners, but human ears generally are very poor detectors of sound and not to be relied upon as accurate sonar devices. I find that especially in windy conditions, my rearward hearing is very unreliable - I often don't hear cars behind me (though I may be aware of them through looking).



You too are assuming substitute rather than supplement. Personally, I spend most of my time on the bike looking ahead - anything more than a brief rearward glance will compromise your ability to proceed forwards safely. I don't use a Varia myself but I can see that they might be a useful supplementary aid for those of us who don't have a second pair of eyes in the back of our heads.

You are assuming far too much. You will fail your driving test if you do not use the rear mirror sufficiently. Why do you think that is? Do you think that making a lifesaver check over your shoulder before turning right is optional just because you don't have eyes on the back of your head?

My point - I should have made it clearer - is that there are a number of ways to gain some awareness of what's going on behind you. They are not mutually exclusive! In fact, it'd be fair to say that they're all supplementary. There is nothing wrong in using all - indeed, that is merely sensible. If NorthernDave finds the Varia of use, more power to him. And I for one will be very interested to hear how you get on with it, @NorthernDave. (Especially with those new fangled electric cars!)