Boxing Day flooding 2015

[srw]

Apparently grouse moors are 'agriculture' now and qualify for government support and the quiet abandonment of legal proceedings against them. This seems to smell quite bad. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/29/deluge-farmers-flood-grouse-moor-drain-land

I thought that was one of the weakest bits of quite a weak article which showed all the signs of having been put together in a hurry. There is a case to be made that we've got our priorites arse about tit, but I don't think Monbiot makes it very effectively.

Of course grouse farming is agriculture - I don't see what else it could be. Grouse farmers raise birds from young so that they can be killed for food. That's exactly what chicken farmers or beef farmers do.

 

[Dec66]

Grouse farmers raise birds from young so that they can be killed for sport.

FTFY.

 

[Hyslop]

Some more pictures of the damage along the canal between Copley and Elland, View attachment 114207 View attachment 114208 View attachment 114209 View attachment 114210 View attachment 114211 View attachment 114212 View attachment 114213 View attachment 114214 View attachment 114215 View attachment 114216

Awful,just awful.I had been wondering about the effects on the waterways,boats and obviously those who live on and around the canals.Sadly those images answer my questions.

 

[PhilDawson8270]

I wonder whether or not it is arguable that the food production is a byproduct of the killing for sport. It certainly looks that way.

However, using a shotgun for food production isn't efficient when you spend the time picking the shot out of it.

 

[srw]

Yes, thank goodness for the hardworking grouse moor owners, struggling to continue to provide the world with a cheap and sustainable supply of grouse meat. Monbiot, in an article I thought was very convincing and not weak at all, points out that grouse moors stretch the definition of 'agriculture' beyond breaking point. The subsidy system that allows rich landowners to cheat in such a blatant and self-serving manner is shameful, and I'm slightly surprised that you are defending it.

Your enemy's enemy is not necessarily your friend.

I'm not defending grouse farming or subsidising rich landowners for undertaking a form of agriculture that relies on rich people with guns rather than abattoirs for the slaughter of the animals raised. Like Monbiot, I think grouse moors are doing damage to the upland ecosystem, which may have resulted in something of an increase to the severity of flooding. Like Monbiot, I think the idea of subsidising a form of agriculture which damages that ecosystem, to the benefit of the already rich is madness.

But, as so often happens, I think he overstates his case. Some people would take exactly the same facts and argue that the EU is an overweening superstate that sprays money around. Some people would take exactly the same facts and argue that grouse shooting is evil because it restricts access to common land. Some people would take exactly the same facts and argue that the economic benefit of shooting to Scotland outweighs any downside.

My suspicion is that grouse shooting is one of many factors contributing to increased flooding - but that air travel and gas power stations are far more important.

 

[Dec66]

I wonder whether or not it is arguable that the food production is a byproduct of the killing for sport. It certainly looks that way.

If it's a byproduct of the production of sporting consumables, then it can't be classed as "agriculture", can it?

Grouse are in the same category as golf balls, clay pigeons and dartboards.

 

[Dec66]

My suspicion is that grouse shooting is one of many factors contributing to increased flooding - but that air travel and gas power stations are far more important.

Yes, and Monbiot may have touched on those factors over the years, once or twice. And perhaps one or two others.

 

[marknotgeorge]

I found and made use of this Amazon Wishlist of useful items to help the folks affected by the Calder Valley floods. Stuff like radios, binbags, paper towels, batteries and the like.

 

[Deleted member 1258]

These pictures of Hebden Bridge have been shared on my Facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/andrew.mee...04028.1073741841.714869027&type=3&pnref=story

 

[steve50]

Those black and white pics are very atmospheric but suited to the current conditions in Hebden Bridge., I shared them to my wall , I hope you don't mind.

 

[steve50]

Wow!! Looks like a river, like its always been there.

 

[srw]

Errrr..... I think it is a river. And a flood-plain which has been formed by regular flooding of the river.

 

[MontyVeda]

Errrr..... I think it is a river. And a flood-plain great bit of development land which has been formed by regular flooding of the river.

FTFY

 

[steve50]

Errrr..... I think it is a river. And a flood-plain which has been formed by regular flooding of the river.

Looking at the 1st picture I hadn't noticed the width of the water in the foreground, so thought it was just a drainage ditch running down the side of the field.

 

[ColinJ]

My sister has been up for the weekend and was upset by what she saw as she drove along the Calder Valley. She said that there were skips full of debris all along the valley, boarded up buildings, and closed-down businesses.

I called in today at a little Asian supermarket on a part of the A646 that is in a dip near the river Calder so it is always affected by any local floods. I told the owner that I was surprised that his shop was open when I returned on December 30th. He said that it had been flooded, but he and his family work to a plan now. Having been caught out in the past, they now monitor the river levels and flood warnings and take drastic action. They empty the shop before floods occur and do their best to minimise the amount of water getting in, while knowing that some will. A lot of water flooded the empty shop on Boxing Day. As soon as the flood waters receded and they got the all-clear, the extended family got to work and spent 3 days cleaning the shop and drying it out. They were open again about 4 days after the flood. Impressive!

Three homes next to the shop have what look like tumble drier vent hoses hanging out of their letter boxes. I imagine that they are connected to dehumidifiers.

There is a branch of The Original Factory Shop just along the road and that was completely swamped and has been gutted. I just found their Facebook page - HERE. The store will be shut for at least 3 months for a total refurb.

The shopkeeper I spoke agreed with me that Todmorden had been lucky compared to Hebden Bridge, Mytholmroyd and other towns further along the valley which suffered even more badly. Some people in the lower valley are complaining that flood defences in Todmorden just shunted more water down the valley more quickly. As suggested in earlier posts, the answer must be to try and keep more of the water up on the hills for longer. I heard that there have been protests aimed at owners of local moorland who have been optimising that for gamebirds and not worrying so much about where the water is going after they have drained it away!