Brompton Paint Issue?

[bonzobanana]

They did have issues when painting was done in Wales - my 2008 bike would have been. What I don't understand is why some bikes - the ones with good paint - have a black undercoat and other - the flaky ones - don't. Someone is cutting corners somewhere. It's not just Brompton: Moultons, at least the affordable ones made in Stratford-upon-Avon, are powdercoated, and it can be woeful. My TSR could really do with a respray.

I've watched a few factory videos for bikes and I could be wrong but I rarely see an undercoat used although not sure about this but when you paint a frame at home you'd pretty much always undercoat the frame before putting a top coat on and then lacquering that. Actually looking at the fuji-ta painting process in their video there are a lot of stages of painting and to be quite honest its looks extremely high quality painting. Fuji-ta make a huge number of brands at different times for varying priced models. Specialized, Bianci, Cannondale, Carrera, Btwin, Muddyfox, Raleigh and many others. There are literally 100s maybe 1000s of brands they have made for. I think one year they were close to 20 million bikes made a significant chunk of world bike production. It seems to be aluminium frames they most dominate in, in western markets. Even when bike brands have assembly planets in Europe etc often the frames and forks come from fuji-ta. Dorel have used them extensively in the past as has Accell the two giant bike importers. Many people reading this will have a fuji-ta bike without actually knowing it if they own a few bikes and have bikes from the big factory-less brands. I personally don't think they quite match Giant or Merida frame and fork quality but are very decent.

I think my Muddyfox Race 200 bike is fuji-ta as I think it was even mentioned on the box and the paint finish on that relatively cheap bike is superb. Dare I say it but some of the Brompton clones that aren't sold in the UK or Europe may be coming out of the fuji-ta factory so likely to have a better paint finish even if the bikes themselves are often compromised a bit with more flexy frames and lower weight ratings.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8fihx4iUlI

 

[berlinonaut]

I've watched a few factory videos for bikes and I could be wrong but I rarely see an undercoat used although not sure about this but when you paint a frame at home you'd pretty much always undercoat the frame before putting a top coat on and then lacquering that.

Are you sure that you are not mixing up traditional laquering with power coating as i.e. Brompton does it? As far as I'm informed with power coating the usual way on metal is (after cleaning and maybe blasting) to have a chemical preparation, today on untreated metal normally phosphating. That's exactly what Brompton does and has done for ages as far as I know. On top of the phosphating comes the powder that then get's burned in in a heat chamber. Powder coating has evolved massively over the last 30 years and today there's probably more than one way to Rome. Also the brands that you are mentioning mainly do aluminum frames - the technique used, common or necessary for powder coating here may in some details differ from the one used on steel.

 

[Justinitus]

An update from me. I’m told that my 2nd replacement frame will be at the shop in 2-3 weeks so when it arrives I’ll get it booked in and report back. Replacement folding pedal is still 6-8 weeks away - despite Brompton showing stock! I’m just glad the bike is still usable otherwise I’d be having a hissy fit!

As a side note, my 2021 rocket red S6 Black Edition (bought a month or so afterwards) still has perfect factory paint and has been ridden a lot more than the Turkish Green one.

 

[bonzobanana]

Are you sure that you are not mixing up traditional laquering with power coating as i.e. Brompton does it? As far as I'm informed with power coating the usual way on metal is (after cleaning and maybe blasting) to have a chemical preparation, today on untreated metal normally phosphating. That's exactly what Brompton does and has done for ages as far as I know. On top of the phosphating comes the powder that then get's burned in in a heat chamber. Powder coating has evolved massively over the last 30 years and today there's probably more than one way to Rome. Also the brands that you are mentioning mainly do aluminum frames - the technique used, common or necessary for powder coating here may in some details differ from the one used on steel.

Isn't fuji-ta powder coating in that video? I must admit I assumed Brompton weren't phosphate dipping because of the poor adhesion of their paint on recent bikes but maybe its just being done badly or there is a storage issue before painting. I think fuji-ta are chemically dipping both steel and aluminium to clean but thinking about it the prep would have to be different between the materials for painting. My point is they are doing a very good job painting steel frames as you can see by their facilities even though their steel frames are very low cost. No excuses for Brompton to not equal or even better them considering their pricing. I've seen some bikes from more basic factories in Bangladesh and Sri Lanka and those steel bikes can corrode quite quickly and the paint is easily chipped off.

 

[steveindenmark]

I have bikes going back to the 70s. All with reasonable paintwork.

My Brompton 9 Streets paintwork is shoddy, even though the bike is well looked after. I like the bike and it is great for what it was made for. But the bike on the whole is shoddy and Brompton seem to have no desire to sort the problems out. The gears on Bromptons are forever being mentioned in forums, they are a major problem. Brompton are aware of this and will not address it.

They are forever banging out what they believe are different models. Every model appears to be a "Special". But trying to tell Brompton that a different colour on the same bike does not make it special. their R&D department seems to consist of a colour chart and thats it.

Instead of taking a little time to sort out the basic problems with the bikes. They spend time flogging extortionatley prices bags and jackets. As a Brompton fan it is quite frustrating.

If I were going down the Brompton route again. I would buy the cheapest model possible and have it sand blasted and resprayed. I would then send it to Kevin at Kinetics in Scotland and tell him what I wanted. Kinetics is what the Brompton R&D dept should be.

But as a niche market bike, it is not in the same class as Koga, for example. But it should be and getting it there would be pretty easy as there are so many people who have a passion for Brompton. It lives on its reputation of being iconic.

When the bike is working correctly, I love it. But it goes wrong far too easily.

 

[rogerzilla]

The black undercoat could be the phosphating dip?

What's the problem with Brompton gears? I know the new derailleur cable arrangement is a bit Heath Robinson and may stick more than the old type, but the hub gears generally work. I don't personally like the Sturmey-Archer NIG design as it's overcomplicated and more prone to rattles, but the market demanded a hub that could never slip between 2 and 3.

 

[Tenkaykev]

I have bikes going back to the 70s. All with reasonable paintwork.

My Brompton 9 Streets paintwork is shoddy, even though the bike is well looked after. I like the bike and it is great for what it was made for. But the bike on the whole is shoddy and Brompton seem to have no desire to sort the problems out. The gears on Bromptons are forever being mentioned in forums, they are a major problem. Brompton are aware of this and will not address it.

They are forever banging out what they believe are different models. Every model appears to be a "Special". But trying to tell Brompton that a different colour on the same bike does not make it special. their R&D department seems to consist of a colour chart and thats it.

Instead of taking a little time to sort out the basic problems with the bikes. They spend time flogging extortionatley prices bags and jackets. As a Brompton fan it is quite frustrating.

If I were going down the Brompton route again. I would buy the cheapest model possible and have it sand blasted and resprayed. I would then send it to Kevin at Kinetics in Scotland and tell him what I wanted. Kinetics is what the Brompton R&D dept should be.

But as a niche market bike, it is not in the same class as Koga, for example. But it should be and getting it there would be pretty easy as there are so many people who have a passion for Brompton. It lives on its reputation of being iconic.

When the bike is working correctly, I love it. But it goes wrong far too easily.

I’ve only ever had one issue, and that was when I’d been practicing removing and refitting the rear wheel. I’d connected up the hub gear connection then gone to bed without setting it up correctly and forgot about it the following morning. I had trouble changing out of second gear but the penny soon dropped.
I fitted a 11 speed chain to my C3, and despite being warned that it wouldn’t work, the derailleur changes smoothly.

 

[CaptainWheezy]

What's the problem with Brompton gears?

The new style plastic shifters become "sticky" and won't change gear without dismantling them and filing away some of the plastic to free up the mechanism. This is a problem that has been reported now for at least a few years (there's video's on YouTube showing how to fix the issue) and has not been addressed by Brompton at all. I have a Black lacquer black edition S6L that I bought new a few years ago from Evans in Sheffield (2018 I think) that suffered with the problem (fixed myself), and also a Superlight S6L purchased from the Brompton website this year that also had the exact same issue (again, fixed myself). Brompton probably are being so tight they don't want to spend the money on a revised injection mould to fix the problem once and for all and instead rely on the dealer network so sort out their design failings (see also the many people having repeated problems with the Brompton Electric on the Facebook groups, having to take the bike back to the dealers to replace batteries, controllers and motors).

 

[Justinitus]

Another update, the dealer has now received the 2nd replacement frame and the replacement folding pedal from Brompton and the bike is booked in for 26th Jan. Fingers crossed this time!

 

[CEBEP]

Good luck @Justinitus

I see this discussion took some time ago and had valid points.

Some fault ratio is acceptable in almost all productions, that's what helps bring production costs down and make them acceptable. Every manufacturer tries to find the best balance between production costs and fault ratio. The impact to brand/producer's reputation is a whole other story and will differ greatly based on what the product is and most importantly how producers handles the fault (quality claims).
Simple example could be wrist watches. If you buy a $5 watch off a Chinese brand and it stops working after 6 months, chances are you will not try to contact Chinese watch manufacturer but throw it away and buy a new one. Minimal to no damage to Chinese brand reputation.

You buy a Rolex, it stops working after 6 months, you bring it to the dealer and they say they'll fix it in 6 months because they will wait for some part which is not yet in stock, or even worst will tell you that it's your fault and it's out of warranty? You will definitely want the world to know about it and your stories in the internet communities will definitely make an impact on the brand's reputation.

Users don't care why Brompton paint have issues, they don't care what type of coating they use or if they doubled production or what not. For user it's not important how many cases of paint issues Brompton had, could be one in a million.

Paying what they pay for Bromptons, users will rightfully expect paint job on their bikes to be excellent, and if something goes wrong they would expect it to be fixed quick. If there were only two isolated paint cases then damage to the brand reputation or it's lack will be determined by how Brompton will handle these two cases to ensure customer satisfaction.

 

[Justinitus]

Today - a full 10 months to the day - and armed with a pocketful of party poppers to celebrate, I ventured to the dealer and collected the Brompton. Frame has been swapped (the 3rd one if you’ve been following the thread!) and the faulty folding pedal replaced with a shiny new one. So all looking good again!

 

[CEBEP]

Congrats, happy you could sort things out!

 

[Ghanabike]

Hello all and thanks for allowing me to join the forum. Unfortunately I have a similar issue with my beloved Brompton C line Explore Piccadilly blue Brompton. I purchased my Brompton in September 2022 and noticed a flaking of paint on the front stem. Since then the problem has become worse. I took the bike back to the dealer. The dealer blamed me for scratching the paint work. I stated that the bike was not of satisfactory quality due to the defective paint work. The dealer has refused to offer a replacement. Any advise please? Picture attached below

 

[Tenkaykev]

Hello all and thanks for allowing me to join the forum. Unfortunately I have a similar issue with my beloved Brompton C line Explore Piccadilly blue Brompton. I purchased my Brompton in September 2022 and noticed a flaking of paint on the front stem. Since then the problem has become worse. I took the bike back to the dealer. The dealer blamed me for scratching the paint work. I stated that the bike was not of satisfactory quality due to the defective paint work. The dealer has refused to offer a replacement. Any advise please? Picture attached below

All I can suggest is to take a few more photos from different angles and close ups, and get in touch with Brompton direct. ( They have an online chat facility which I’ve found very responsive)
Forward the photos and take it from there.
Brompton have been increasing production a lot, and brought a lot of previously outsourced operations in house, perhaps they’re having problems with processes. Nevertheless they should welcome the feedback.
Do let us know how you get on.

 

[Cycleops]

Hello all and thanks for allowing me to join the forum. Unfortunately I have a similar issue with my beloved Brompton C line Explore Piccadilly blue Brompton. I purchased my Brompton in September 2022 and noticed a flaking of paint on the front stem. Since then the problem has become worse. I took the bike back to the dealer. The dealer blamed me for scratching the paint work. I stated that the bike was not of satisfactory quality due to the defective paint work. The dealer has refused to offer a replacement. Any advise please? Picture attached below

I should send your complaint to Mr Will Double Barrel the CEO giving full details and pics.