Bus driver jailed

[Crackedheadset]

But then that leaves the 'lunatic in the big metal box' free and roaming as a sort of ticking bomb. Does his stability degrade over time, could it eventually be triggered by the wrong look?

I'm also not sure any self defence, or self preservation, type excuse is ever going to wash from someone in a mahoosive vehicle v cyclist.

The problem here is that we should all be able to have a reasonable expectation that a vehicle will not be used as a weapon. If we can't then they need to be licenced and controlled as such.

Not necessarily, in those types of situations where the driver can simply not be reasoned with, it is far better to take down the number/reg and report them. I don’t think that parking a bike in front of the bus will ever be beneficial to anyone, and was not in that situation and will never be in any other. As for the ‘’triggered by the wrong look’’ scenario. This a hyperbole surely? And is difficult to debate, such is the complexities involved in such situations and the different dynamics. We all act in different ways when in confrontations and as such never know what may happen. Which is where self preservation comes into play?

 

[slowmotion]

This is a much more difficult problem to deal with, so I suppose it's not too surprising that some have taken the lazy option to suggesting solutions.

OK, you get carved up by a bus like the unfortunate cyclist who ended up in hospital for two weeks. A number of peeps here suggest that self preservation looms large in their minds. You say we are lazy. What do you do in such an event?

 

[Crackedheadset]

Victim blaming is looking at trigger points. These are notoriously unpredictable things, sometimes drivers will go off like a bomb with the cyclist having done nothing at all, the other with a wave of thanks, or perhaps more.

All this totally ignores the root cause and the real problem - that we have the occasional angry madman who is prepared to use a vehicle as a lethal weapon. This is a much more difficult problem to deal with, so I suppose it's not too surprising that some have taken the lazy option to suggesting solutions.

...who has been imprisoned. Whilst I agree that the occasional madman is a threat, surely you recognise that there are different (and sometimes more productive) ways of dealing with such a threat?

 

[Norm]

All this totally ignores the root cause and the real problem - that we have the occasional angry madman who is prepared to use a vehicle as a lethal weapon.

Whilst I completely agree with the issue that you raise, I don't think that it's either ignoring the problem or a lazy solution. Some people are lunatics, it's a good idea not to lose it at people you don't know, in any situation, in case that person is one of them. Whether that's someone who drops litter, someone who jumps a red light or someone who (you perceive) doesn't give enough room, then getting all up in their face is going to provoke some sort of reaction. If you choose to take on every person who passes you closely, you are more likely to end up the wrong side of the occasional madman who is prepared to use their vehicle as a lethal weapon.

No-one has yet attempted to suggest what the cyclist thought would have been a good outcome from his provocation, possibly because all agree that it is indefensible for the cyclist to have reacted like that.

 

[summerdays]

In looking at this video - I'm also baring in mind my experiences. There have been occasions when after a situation has occurred when I have felt wronged that I'm aware that my reaction to the incident has played a part in what happened next. I'm not saying that my reaction wasn't justified just that I can see how an incident can escalate (you don't know if it is the local madman you are crossing swords with). Unfortunately hindsight is very useful but a bit too late!

 

[summerdays]

...who has been imprisoned. Whilst I agree that the occasional madman is a threat, surely you recognise that there are different (and sometimes more productive) ways of dealing with such a threat?

My best ever reaction to an incident was when I pulled up next to a lorry and pointed out extremely calmly that he had nearly killed me. I was proud of how I dealt with it and his reaction was apologetic (that he just hadn't seen me) rather than denying any problem, that took all the potential heat out of the situation.

 

[col]

My best ever reaction to an incident was when I pulled up next to a lorry and pointed out extremely calmly that he had nearly killed me. I was proud of how I dealt with it and his reaction was apologetic (that he just hadn't seen me) rather than denying any problem, that took all the potential heat out of the situation.

I would have said "obviously, if I had you wouldnt be telling me now would you?"

 

[growingvegetables]

The kinda neat and slippery slope in this thread into a portion of the "blame" being on the cyclist, the cyclist's "provocation" being contributory ....... sorry, but I much prefer my non-cyclist friends' utter and total revulsion. No ifs, buts, or anything else.

I have no problem at all in thinking "There but for the grace of God ......."; aye, and I remember a few of my own incidents, think I might want to handle them differently another time, because I surely don't want to end up the way this few seconds ended up. But that's me thinking, analysing, and learning (I hope).

"Blame" the cyclist? No. Think of the cyclist as responsible for "provoking" a momentary incidence of psychopathic driving? No.

 

[al78]

The kinda neat and slippery slope in this thread into a portion of the "blame" being on the cyclist, the cyclist's "provocation" being contributory ....... sorry, but I much prefer my non-cyclist friends' utter and total revulsion. No ifs, buts, or anything else.

I have no problem at all in thinking "There but for the grace of God ......."; aye, and I remember a few of my own incidents, think I might want to handle them differently another time, because I surely don't want to end up the way this few seconds ended up. But that's me thinking, analysing, and learning (I hope).

"Blame" the cyclist? No. Think of the cyclist as responsible for "provoking" a momentary incidence of psychopathic driving? No.

Do you think the momentary incidence of psychopathic driving would have happened if the cyclist had just let it go and not parked his bike in front of the bus and got involved in an altercation with the driver?

 

[semislickstick]

Whilst I completely agree with the issue that you raise, I don't think that it's either ignoring the problem or a lazy solution. Some people are lunatics, it's a good idea not to lose it at people you don't know, in any situation, in case that person is one of them. Whether that's someone who drops litter, someone who jumps a red light or someone who (you perceive) doesn't give enough room, then getting all up in their face is going to provoke some sort of reaction. If you choose to take on every person who passes you closely, you are more likely to end up the wrong side of the occasional madman who is prepared to use their vehicle as a lethal weapon.

No-one has yet attempted to suggest what the cyclist thought would have been a good outcome from his provocation, possibly because all agree that it is indefensible for the cyclist to have reacted like that.

What? He got cut up/close overtake on the roundabout and after a discussion went on a a bit of a arsey go slow. His mistake was assuming he was talking/arguing to a rational professional driver, and all he was having was some cross words, like with like. Provocation? When did Philip take a swing at the driver or make him fearful of his life? If the driver had just sworn abuse at philip, or even got out and shouted, I'm sure the police would have told them both to get over it. It kind of makes me think the cut up/close overtake on the roundabout as deliberate. Who hasn't come across a psychopath bus driver?

 

[Crackedheadset]

Do you think the momentary incidence of psychopathic driving would have happened if the cyclist had just let it go and not parked his bike in front of the bus and got involved in an altercation with the driver?

It would not have happened. However one might argue that this is not the issue here. It's the fact that the driver did lose it and drive in the manner of which he drove.

Having said that, I think the majority of drivers (ime) both professional and non are capable of 'losing it' given a certain amount of provocation. And this is such a complex issue to analyse it is far better to self preserve then attempt to engage and possibly aggrevate, and then discuss the ptifalls and perils on a cycling forum! and read to much into victim blaming. When all that is really being said is that the cyclist in this and other situations as well that no doubt some of us have experienced would better to tae down the number and report.

And I do agree with your point.

 

[growingvegetables]

Do you think the momentary incidence of psychopathic driving would have happened if the cyclist had just let it go and not parked his bike in front of the bus and got involved in an altercation with the driver?

Neither you nor I are in any position to give a serious answer to that question - my supposition would be as wild and unfounded as yours.

All I can honestly say is, as I have already, that I might want to handle some of my own incidents rather differently another time.

And even then, there's no guarantees. The van driver who quite deliberately walloped me with his mirror on Wednesday did so AFTER I had entirely ignored his close pass and verbal abuse.

 

[Crackedheadset]

What? He got cut up/close overtake on the roundabout and after a discussion went on a a bit of a arsey go slow. His mistake was assuming he was talking/arguing to a rational professional driver, and all he was having was some cross words, like with like. Provocation? When did Philip take a swing at the driver or make him fearful of his life? If the driver had just sworn abuse at philip, or even got out and shouted, I'm sure the police would have told them both to get over it. It kind of makes me think the cut up/close overtake on the roundabout as deliberate. Who hasn't come across a psychopath bus driver?

Sorry, but what you describe above is omitting certain details? The cyclist parked his bike in front of the bus, started to grab a windscreen wiper yelling at the driver and the rode out from the kerb keeping a parrellel line with the bus driver when the driver tried to overtake? All what I've seen and read of course.

 

[dawesome]

It would not have happened.

Once again, you have no way of knowing whether this is true.

 

[Crackedheadset]

Once again, you have no way of knowing whether this is true.

But surely if the cyclist did not set off a the same time as the driver then the collision would not have happened?