C2W Scheme - Proof of 50% worth of commuting??

[PK99]

I hope you tut at them loudly every time you walk past them.

I say again, what would the cost be to police the system so that person couldn't 'get away with it'? I believe it would be more than the savings you got by stopping them.

Ethical behaviour is not about not doing something for fear of being caught, it is about not doing something because it is wrong.

You are right - it would cost more to police that it saved, but that does not make stealing from your fellow citizens any less unethical.

 

[w00hoo_kent]

But laws are breakable, ethics are a much more personal thing. Your ethics aren't the be all and end all for everyone else. I mean, ethically, is it wrong to eat the last rolo? Cross the road on the red man? Let your garden turn in to a wilderness? Drown a kitten? (My answer to some of those may be 'yes' of course).

And laws you can't/won't enforce are pointless.

 

[PK99]

From Single track forum some time ago:

"Tried to buy my 2 yr old son a Giant Animator 12" on the firm's cyclescheme and got busted (questioned my need for stabilisers).

Am I in the poo now, or is this the sort of fair game abuse that just gets passed off?"

...

"Just got out. HR girl found it all very funny that she has to spend the whole afternoon calling in cyclescheme abusers over their purchases. It seems I'm not alone.

'What would someone want an £800 pair of wheels for without the rest of the bike?' was one comment."

 

[Paul99]

From Single track forum some time ago:

"Tried to buy my 2 yr old son a Giant Animator 12" on the firm's cyclescheme and got busted (questioned my need for stabilisers).

Am I in the poo now, or is this the sort of fair game abuse that just gets passed off?"

...

"Just got out. HR girl found it all very funny that she has to spend the whole afternoon calling in cyclescheme abusers over their purchases. It seems I'm not alone.

'What would someone want an £800 pair of wheels for without the rest of the bike?' was one comment."

Awesome, an anecdote as proof positive that the scheme is being abused.

 

[AndyRM]

Is anyone disputing that the scheme is abused? I thought the discussion was how much and whether it is materially important.

No. A bit, no.

 

[PK99]

Sounds about right. I know there is a hanging and/or flog them lobby but that wouldn't survive examining the arithmetic involved.

It's not about arithmetic, it's about personal ethics.

In the start pen on Sunday the guy infront of me was putting stuff in his jersey pocket under his waterproof and missed with a £20 note. A couple of inches of foot movement from me and it would have been hidden - not one had seen, he was oblivious. Instead I bent down, picked it up and passed it to him over his shoulder. Personal ethics.

If someone's personal ethics allows them to go up to a poorly paid tax payer and say "I'm very well paid, earning much more than you, and am pleased to say I cheated the tax system by abusing the C2W scheme" Then, frankly, shame on them.

 

[Paul99]

If someone's personal ethics allows them to go up to a poorly paid tax payer and say "I'm very well paid, earning much more than you, and am pleased to say I cheated the tax system by abusing the C2W scheme" Then, frankly, shame on them.

It's only very well paid people doing this then is it?

 

[PK99]

It's only very well paid people doing this then is it?

In the N+1 building a stable argument, yes.

And certainly one of the proponents is happy to state he is very well paid and the salary sacrifice helps wrt child benefit.

 

[Profpointy]

I have to say, I think the scheme is total nonsense, unjust and tokenism even if you accept its aim.

Anyone buying a bike for a grand, especially if on 40% can afford a bike quite easily, and is hardly going to be put off commuting by bike because of cash.

Someone restoring an old bike or wanting a better bike (or new wheels say), can't but has to have a whole new bike - imported at that.

Someone on lower wages who might just benefit somewhat will only be buying a cheaper bike, and only get basic rate tax off it - so any savings will likely be swallowed up by various middle men. And if they're fixing up an old bike, there's nowt!

Just maybe, encouraging more bikes to be sold is "a good thing", but I'm not really keen on special pleading and subsidies for this or that. Mind you, the car scrappage scheme was a whole order of magnitude more stupid and iniquitous, but that's not a reason for stupidity here.

 

[w00hoo_kent]

If bits of bikes isn't on it now, it was definitely talked about this year as something that was going to be allowed.

I'm not sure I see the super wealthy stable builder as a thing (much like ethics I guess it depends on what you count as being rich) the people I see buying up a stable are filling in holes with bikes that will be ridden when they probably wouldn't be bothering. If I was rich and looking at a 4k bike (in my head that's what rich people do) then I wouldn't be hire purchasing it from C2W.

 

[KneesUp]

If bits of bikes isn't on it now, it was definitely talked about this year as something that was going to be allowed.

I'm not sure I see the super wealthy stable builder as a thing (much like ethics I guess it depends on what you count as being rich) the people I see buying up a stable are filling in holes with bikes that will be ridden when they probably wouldn't be bothering. If I was rich and looking at a 4k bike (in my head that's what rich people do) then I wouldn't be hire purchasing it from C2W.

Why does the 'stable builder' have to be super wealthy? There are people on this thread who have bought / plan to buy multiple bikes on c2w - one of them admits to doing so because it reduced take home pay and therefore increases child benefit payments, meaning the bike is subsidised once because there is no tax on the income taken for it, and subsidised twice because the result of that is increased child related benefit.

 

[Soltydog]

Anyone buying a bike for a grand, especially if on 40% can afford a bike quite easily, and is hardly going to be put off commuting by bike because of cash.

How does paying 40% tax make me able to afford a bike more easily?
3 years ago my wife was working & our mortgage was £850, now my wife no longer works (or claims benefits) & this year I will just be onto the higher rate of tax, but my mortgage is still £850 & without my wife's earnings we have less disposable income now . Just because someone pays higher rate tax it doesn't make them have more free cash

 

[Soltydog]

HMRC have decided standard % for residual values according to age so condition is irrelevant for the major schemes involved. It would be down to you to argue your case with HRMC.

The last scheme I was in with cycle solutions, they asked 3 questions which determined the final value

 

[Soltydog]

HMRC have decided standard % for residual values according to age so condition is irrelevant for the major schemes involved. It would be down to you to argue your case with HRMC.

The last scheme I was in with cycle solutions, they asked 3 questions which determined the final value

 

[Profpointy]

How does paying 40% tax make me able to afford a bike more easily?
3 years ago my wife was working & our mortgage was £850, now my wife no longer works (or claims benefits) & this year I will just be onto the higher rate of tax, but my mortgage is still £850 & without my wife's earnings we have less disposable income now . Just because someone pays higher rate tax it doesn't make them have more free cash

, but it does mean you've more money than someone on a lower rate though doesn't it, even if you had even more money last year or whatever