mcr
Veteran
- Location
- North Bucks
That's useful to know - thanks! (I'm not usually such a meany, and may well join in the long run, but would like to feel I can 'try before I buy' into the whole concept of camping.)
Camping or ho(s)stels? - the money case.
- Thread starter willem
- Start date
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That's useful to know - thanks! (I'm not usually such a meany, and may well join in the long run, but would like to feel I can 'try before I buy' into the whole concept of camping.)
Cush, If you do not want to kneel inside a tent, there is this one: http://www.terra-nov...er_Space_2.html I am 57 with a bad back, and ease of entry is increasingly important. Some tents are awful, but some really are not that bad (e.g. MSR Hubba Hubba HP, or Helsport Ringstind).
Willem
Willem
Cush
Veteran
- Location
- North Cumbria but still a Geordie
I will worked out the cost of the camping kit, how heavy it will be and how long I am liable to use it (here I have a horrible down to earth streak in me and always try to give honest assesments) and then compare the cost against Hostels and B & Bs then put this against the freedom of camping (06:00/07:00 starts suit me more than late ones) and then I will talk to the Gaffer who will make alsorts of strange noises before giving an equally honest opinon.
Ticktockmy
Guru
- Location
- Crawley, West Sussex
Well I am 70, still backpack,still cyclepack still go streaming up the mountians, still plan wild and wonderful cycle tours.. I jsut get on with it. ok the joints dont work quite so easy as they did 50 years ago, but what the f$&K tomorrow is another day. Age is no excuse. As a 94 yo once told me as I was complaining about the hill up to the cafe on Headly common, and he was taking the pi** out of his 86 yo campainion. so go for it.
That's the spirit. At the same time, sometimes things do not work that way anymore, and there is no point in denying that age does things to you. From my own reassuring experience I can say that I have quite a few cycle touring friends who do pretty ambitious trips, and happily camp in small tents.
There are a couple of things to consider, however. As far as the cycling goes, climbing is the part that gets the hardest with age, for simple physiological reasons. You can delay the decline by training, but not stop it. So get sufficiently low gearing (a big hurray for modern mtb gearing), and most of all, travel ultralight. Climbing is all about beating gravity, so the less weight the better. This is where the real comfort will be, not in take more stuff 'because you like your little comforts'. That said, a slightly roomier tent makes life a lot easier if you are not as flexible as you once were. So a Terra Nova Laser Competition may be very light, but also too small. An MSR Hubba Hubba HP tent at 1.9 kg is just a bit heavier than your typical solo tent, but not by much. And it is a lot more spacious. A Helsport Ringstind Light 1 is only 1.5 kg (and the much larger Ringstind 2 is still just 1.7 kg), and also rather taller than many solo tents. Thin mattresses used to be a problem for aging backs, but the new generation of insulated air mattresses (Thermarest Neoair, Exped Synmat Basic, Exped Downmat - in order of increasing warmth) are both far thicker and more comfortable than the old thin self inflatables, but also lighter and more compact to pack. The new Exped air pillow at 85 grams is superbly comfortable.
Willem
There are a couple of things to consider, however. As far as the cycling goes, climbing is the part that gets the hardest with age, for simple physiological reasons. You can delay the decline by training, but not stop it. So get sufficiently low gearing (a big hurray for modern mtb gearing), and most of all, travel ultralight. Climbing is all about beating gravity, so the less weight the better. This is where the real comfort will be, not in take more stuff 'because you like your little comforts'. That said, a slightly roomier tent makes life a lot easier if you are not as flexible as you once were. So a Terra Nova Laser Competition may be very light, but also too small. An MSR Hubba Hubba HP tent at 1.9 kg is just a bit heavier than your typical solo tent, but not by much. And it is a lot more spacious. A Helsport Ringstind Light 1 is only 1.5 kg (and the much larger Ringstind 2 is still just 1.7 kg), and also rather taller than many solo tents. Thin mattresses used to be a problem for aging backs, but the new generation of insulated air mattresses (Thermarest Neoair, Exped Synmat Basic, Exped Downmat - in order of increasing warmth) are both far thicker and more comfortable than the old thin self inflatables, but also lighter and more compact to pack. The new Exped air pillow at 85 grams is superbly comfortable.
Willem
bikepacker
Guru
- Location
- South Worcestershire
I know how you feel. I get frustrated at the late starts I have to make when staying in hotels and B&Bs.
I ran my own companies for over 30 years so know all about costings. As this thread started with a reference to costings (the enjoyment and freedom of cycle camping is priceless) let my analyse comparative costs for my 60 nights a year camping.
Best camping equipment possibe for one person: Under £800 with a life of 10 years.
60 nights campsites. £400 maximum based on actual fees last year.
Staying in Hostals: £1100+
Staying in B&Bs: £1500+
Staying in Hotels £3000+
doog
....
- Location
- The beautiful south
So you would advise new cyclo tourers to buy £800 worth of kit?.. the OP was giving this advice to newbies...stating they could earn their money back in one summer holiday.Newbies dont do 60 nights a year, many newbies buy the gear and do nothing, many rock up on a bike and decide thats enough, let alone the tent.
My advice to new cyclo tourers is NOT to spend all that money on a Hilleberg tent for example and all the gear as suggested on this thread ....instead get named gear at a third of the price and see if you actually enjoy cycling and camping at the same time.........most dont
If by some miracle you actually believe you are going to undertake this sport for the next ten years , yes you might want to invest in all that gear to justify your expense but your money may actually be better spent on improving your bike...but thats another...expensive story
Cycling is not cheap... I have spent more maintaining my commuting bike over the last 2 years than I have on my Lexus
My advise was that buying good quality gear is not that expensive if you compare it to the alternative of ho(s)tels. And mind you, in my example it was 800 pounds for two people, and 550 for one person (on looking better for current prices it would actually be 750 and 490). The gear I mentioned was not at all over the top, but a carefully chosen mix of quality and price. At about 50 pounds the Synmat Basic is excellent value for money, and the same applies to the Alpkit bag. A Skyehigh could save you 50 pounds per bag, however (making it 650 and 440 pounds in total). The reason I went for down is that it makes for a compact bag, and that allows you to skip the front panniers, saving some 100-150 pounds and a lot of weight. The Trangia is a quality stove and you would be hard put to get anything much cheaper than the about 50 pounds it costs if you buy a cheap gas stove and some cheap pots. It is also very cheap to run. So what remains is the tent. My suggestion was an MSR Hubba HP for solo use (260 pounds) , and an MSR Hubba Hubba HP (330 pounds) for two people. That is a lot cheaper than a Hilleberg, and they are still very good tents that can be used in demanding situations. I am sure there are other good tents in this price range. Really cheap tents are a waste of money in my view, and risk putting you off camping for the rest of your life.
Bikes are much more expensive indeed, although my own commuter bike does not really cost much to maintain at all. My personal advise would be that if you already have a bike of some sort that is vaguely usable, use that on your first trip, choose an easy destination, and invest in the camping gear first. You earn it back quickly.
Willem
Bikes are much more expensive indeed, although my own commuter bike does not really cost much to maintain at all. My personal advise would be that if you already have a bike of some sort that is vaguely usable, use that on your first trip, choose an easy destination, and invest in the camping gear first. You earn it back quickly.
Willem
bikepacker
Guru
- Location
- South Worcestershire
I was not advising anyone to buy anything. I was stating differing costs based on my experiences.
OK yes camping is generally cheaper and you can save quite a bit of money camping - although it depends a lot on where you go - in Andalucia for example, I was generally paying around 20 euros for a decent single room with private bathroom and TV in a pensión as compared to 12 euros or so in a campsite.
You can save even more if you cook for yourself. But for me eating in local restaurants, bars and cafes is a fundamental part of my touring expereience. I camp as a way to save money so I can afford to eat out.
But it depends a lot on your perspective: I suspect that there's a spectrum from those who hate the thought of camping, to those like me who camp as a way to save money and for whom it's more of a necessary evil, to those for whom camping is a fundamental part of the experience - as important, if not more so, than the cycling. cycle touring doesn't have to involve camping and there's no reason why it should: if I could stay in hotels every night I would.
Camping has it's downsides too:
- the cost of the kit;
- the weight of the kit;
- in some areas campsites can be hard to find and may not be open outside high season (although the flip side is that camping does also increase your options);
- you spend a good hour of every day putting up tents and taking them down again. If you stay in a hotel or hostel you can be up and away first thing (provided of course you pay the night before). Very very few hotels in Spain/France/Italy oblige you to pay for breakfast;
- there's nothing more miserable than camping in periods of sustained rain and humidity when you can't dry your clothes etc.
As far as advice to a newbie is concerned. My advice would be not to think that going cycle touring means you have to camp, or indeed that you have to go on long expeditions. If you are not sure whether it's for you, then go on short trips to start with and either borrow camping equipment or stay in hostels/ hotels. If you are sure it's for you then by all means get the credit card out. Yes if you like camping then buying camping equipment is a good investment, but equally it would be silly to pay a load of money and then find you hate camping.
You can save even more if you cook for yourself. But for me eating in local restaurants, bars and cafes is a fundamental part of my touring expereience. I camp as a way to save money so I can afford to eat out.
But it depends a lot on your perspective: I suspect that there's a spectrum from those who hate the thought of camping, to those like me who camp as a way to save money and for whom it's more of a necessary evil, to those for whom camping is a fundamental part of the experience - as important, if not more so, than the cycling. cycle touring doesn't have to involve camping and there's no reason why it should: if I could stay in hotels every night I would.
Camping has it's downsides too:
- the cost of the kit;
- the weight of the kit;
- in some areas campsites can be hard to find and may not be open outside high season (although the flip side is that camping does also increase your options);
- you spend a good hour of every day putting up tents and taking them down again. If you stay in a hotel or hostel you can be up and away first thing (provided of course you pay the night before). Very very few hotels in Spain/France/Italy oblige you to pay for breakfast;
- there's nothing more miserable than camping in periods of sustained rain and humidity when you can't dry your clothes etc.
As far as advice to a newbie is concerned. My advice would be not to think that going cycle touring means you have to camp, or indeed that you have to go on long expeditions. If you are not sure whether it's for you, then go on short trips to start with and either borrow camping equipment or stay in hostels/ hotels. If you are sure it's for you then by all means get the credit card out. Yes if you like camping then buying camping equipment is a good investment, but equally it would be silly to pay a load of money and then find you hate camping.
