Camping or ho(s)stels? - the money case.

[willem]

That is the alternative, of course. However, with good equipment I have never in some thirtyfive years had to flee to a hotel. That has more than paid for the expensive gear.
Willem

 

[doog]

It is often suggested that if you are new to cycle touring, it may be good to go on a ho(s)tel tour first, to avoid the initial investment in camping gear. Instead, I want to argue that even serious quality camping gear can be earned back in one summer holiday. Let me show some tentative sums. A ho(s)tel holiday of three weeks for two people would cost perhaps 50 pounds a day for the ho(s)tel, plus perhaps 15 pounds per day for eating out rather than cooking your own meals. A camping holiday would be some 15 pounds per day for the campsite, plus the cost of camping gear, of course. So the difference is about 1000 pounds for these three weeks. How much would camping gear cost - how much do you need to earn back?
You want seriously compact and lightweight quality gear that will keep you comfortable and safe during Spring and Autumn holidays in, for example, France, and summer holidays at higher altitides in, for example, Switzerland. And you want the gear to last at least something like a decade, rather than disintegrate after two seasons. Two Exped Synmat Basic mattresses, two Alpkit Pipedream 400 sleeping bags, a Trangia 25 UL stove with pots, and an MSR Hubba Hubba HP tent can be had for about 800 pounds. And all this only weighs less than 6 kg, or less than 3 kg per person. These are only examples, and you can spend more on lighter stuff or a more spacious tent, or stuff that is better suited to 4 season camping. However, these examples present really high quality gear that is perfectly suitable for almost all serious cycle touring in Europe.
So you can earn back the initial investment in about one year. If you don't like the cycling bit you can use the camping gear to go car camping next year. If you don't like the camping bit, you can sell the camping gear second had, and still get a few hundred pounds for it.
Finally, this is only the money argument. The fun argument is even stronger: camping is a joy to do.
Willem

I agree that is quality gear (and you could probably use it for an Everest trip) but in your first sentence you argue the case for people 'new' to cycle touring. If 'new' surely its sensible to by cheaper kit if you are starting out. I would bet that many people who are new dont get ' into it' at all and end up sticking their gear on ebay or in the cupboard. Expensive gear doesnt make your holiday great or get you into cycle touring. There are quality tents, bags and mats for a fraction of your price that will last years and keep you dry and warm but the ethos of touring isnt about the gear, more about the love of cycling and camping.


I would urge caution for new cycle tourers rather than splashing out hundreds on kit they may only use once and they will save loads more on that first holiday.

 

[P.H]

If hostels were still like they were in my youth, thirty odd years ago, I wouldn't consider camping.  Clean, basic, cheap, priority for those traveling by foot or bike and used by people glad to be appreciating the outdoors.  They have deteriorated into something completely different now, to the extent that I could no longer use them for a tour about seven years ago.  There are still a few traditional hostels, like the Gatliff Trust ones in the Hebrides, but they are few and far between, not much use for the touring cyclist.

So I thought I'd give cycle camping a try.  I spent £220 on equipment with the commitment to use it for 22 nights by which time I calculated it would have paid for itself.  It was a revelation how good and light even cheap kit is, I sleep as well in a tent as I do in a hostel, though in bad weather I miss the facilities and camping often lacks the social element of a hostel lounge.  I have gradually upgraded all my camping kit, to the value of around £900, of course it's better than what I started out with, but to be honest not that much better.

 

[sgw]

If hostels were still like they were in my youth, thirty odd years ago, I wouldn't consider camping. Clean, basic, cheap, priority for those travelling by foot or bike and used by people glad to be appreciating the outdoors. They have deteriorated into something completely different now, to the extent that I could no longer use them for a tour about seven years ago. There are still a few traditional hostels, like the Gatliff Trust ones in the Hebrides, but they are few and far between, not much use for the touring cyclist.

Just wondering P.H. as you now camp instead of using hostels what do you think off the changes in camp sites over a similar period. In my own experience I have found the same sort of changes in camp sites as you describe in hostels. I know that with research, experience and good planning you can still find good sites but I find so few that using them alone would be very restrictive.

Agree with your advice re kit too. Starting with the basics and refining as you go makes a lot of sense. You also have the advantage of defining your real needs with the benefit of experience.

While sounding like a monty python character...

My first tent was a patched up and discarded bit of sail cloth my dad brought home from the docks, one of my mam's brush handles sawn half for poles, and a dozen 6" bits of bamboo pea sticks for pegs. Me and a mate "toured" from Hull to Hornsea on a Raleigh RSW16 and and old Hercules. Loaded with "tent", tins of beans, a football? and a guitar?? we arrived safely after much adventure to survive a thunderstorm on the cliffs. I think current advice might be against such a venture. It would have denied one of the best experiences of my life.

I am now as much of a gear junky as my meagre resources allow.

 

[bikepacker]

The Camping and Caravan Club sites have a backpacker rate which covers cycle-campers (ie. someone actually arriving on their camping gear laden bike). Also the Backpackers Club and the Fell Club have lists of suitable campsites, most recommended by their members.

 

[mcr]

The Camping and Caravan Club sites have a backpacker rate which covers cycle-campers (ie. someone actually arriving on their camping gear laden bike).

All I can find on the CCC website is the standard £37/year rate which, for a 'beginner' like me who may only wish to camp for a handful of nights in a year, seems a bit steep. Too many of the better campsites (from a cycle-camping point of view of cheapness and simplicity) are members-only. Unlike membership groups like the YHA and CTC, where I can see a sub goes towards concrete benefits or infrastructure, this one just seems a cliquey con to establish some sort of exclusivity.

 

[Arch]

All I can find on the CCC website is the standard £37/year rate which, for a 'beginner' like me who may only wish to camp for a handful of nights in a year, seems a bit steep. Too many of the better campsites (from a cycle-camping point of view of cheapness and simplicity) are members-only. Unlike membership groups like the YHA and CTC, where I can see a sub goes towards concrete benefits or infrastructure, this one just seems a cliquey con to establish some sort of exclusivity.

Looking at the site, I think the backpacker rate is applied to the fee per night, not the membership fee...

A backpacking member gets the cheapest rate, a non-member backpacker is still cheaper than a member non-backpacker... See 'fees' at this site, chosen randomly (well, googled)...

http://www.campingandcaravanningclu...x/details.aspx?id=6370&returnPage=search.aspx

 

[willem]

French camping sites can be a lot cheaper and more pleasant. Anyway, I had another look around, and if you shop carefully you can probably have the lot for 750 pounds. For the solo cyclist the economics are less favourable, of course. The same gear but with an MSR Hubba HP solo tent and a Trangia 27 solo stove would work out at about 500 pounds. And it would be about 4 kg, rather than the 3 kg per head for two people. I still think that economically this is all very attractive.
Willem

 

[andrew_s]

All I can find on the CCC website is the standard £37/year rate which, for a 'beginner' like me who may only wish to camp for a handful of nights in a year, seems a bit steep. Too many of the better campsites (from a cycle-camping point of view of cheapness and simplicity) are members-only. Unlike membership groups like the YHA and CTC, where I can see a sub goes towards concrete benefits or infrastructure, this one just seems a cliquey con to establish some sort of exclusivity.

What the CCC membership gets you seems to be about £1.50 to £2 off the non-member backpacker rate per night, the jumbo campsite guide they do, and access to all the small member only sites. There are quite a lot of these, but you would probably have to ask bikepacker what they are like. I would guess that there's some 3rd party insurance too.

 

[bikepacker]

The Backpacker rate I was referring to is a nightly rate for C&CC sites. If you go to their website you can get club site rates for members and non-members.

Yes it is around £37 to join as a member and for me I save that much a year on site fees. In addition I find other benefits such as; Big Sites Book (best campsite directory), Camping Carnet (CTC no longer supply them) and the use of many smaller and often cheaper, members only sites.

 

[vorsprung]

If I was going to be able to spend 3 weeks on holiday riding around then yes, I'd probably get a nice lightweight tent

But I am not. I have 7 days cycling in the Netherlands. I have booked Stay-Okay hostels for all the overnights and the average is about 90 euros for three of us, inc breakfast. I have paid the extra to get a "family room" so I will be the only one snoring

I would guess that I might be able to also use the tent for 3 or 4 days extra on top of this, for a weekend or two away. But realistically the 3 week payback will take a few years

Also remember that camping is not all unalloyed freedom and fresh air. There's the weight of all the kit, putting the tent up in a gale, shaking the water off before packing it up etc etc

 

[rich p]

I'm not sure what the point of all this is. I camp because I love to camp. If it's dodgy weather I occasionally use hotels and If I go in the cold weather, I invariably use B&Bs or small hotels.
There's no right or wrong; do what you want, when you want and spend however much you want to spend.
Live and let live.

 

[psmiffy]

+1 – while I think that the OP has it spot on in his analysis of costs etc - I camp because I like to camp and probably like richp I carry enough gear to make it comfortable in all weathers – I hate staying in hostels and B & Bs and have only had to chicken out of camping on one occasion due to the weather (Croatia – wind was knocking down pedestrians and cars were being blown off the road – prudent not to camp on an exposed campsite)

I cook every night because I like my cooking and I am too mean to pay for a well cooked meal of normally insufficient calorie content and too picky to pay for a cheap badly cooked meal.

However, as richp says everybody is different – not all people are serial cycle campers - sometimes the cheaper camping options make sense for fair weather one off trips - using b&bs and hostels suits some people better or in bad weather is a no brainer - there is no right way or wrong way to go about cycle touring – you have to make up your own mind what suits you

 

[willem]

Well, as the one who started all this, I must admit that my personal motivation is not at all financial. I cycle because I love cycling, and I camp because I love camping. For me, the combination is a match made in heaven. That said, the economic argument about the heavy investment cost of camping gear, and of quality camping gear in particular, is often used (on this forum too). So I thought it would clarify a lot of such arguments to show some sums. To do these sums properly and fairly, I used serious quality gear for the example (without going to the very top of the market). I still stand by my original conclusion that you earn back the investment in about one summer holiday. This gear will last a decade, however, if not more. I am convinced that it can be a decade of happiness, and that is why I try to persuade people to try it.
Willem

 

[Arch]

I quite like camping, although I haven't done loads of it, and I've never yet toured and camped, as in moving on each day. I'd like to, someday.

There is of course the outlay issue. You might get all the good gear you need for £500, but if you haven't got £500 up front, you either buy cheaper kit (which may, or may not last well) or you pay as you go in hostels etc...

I've also heard it said that it's good, when you are cycle camping, to have a night 'off' everyso often in a hotel or B and B, just to have a bit of a stretch in a big bed, and a touch of luxury. Sounds fine to me!