Can Somebody Please Explain Dynamo Lighting To Me?
- Thread starter cosmicbike
- Start date
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Randomnerd
Bimbleur
- Location
- North Yorkshire
Do a lot of night miles and you want the best lights. I’ve got Son hub and Son Edelux lights. Very little maintenance ever required. Superb clear light. Will also power a Sven Cycles usb charger, which I can split to trickle charge gps and phone during day. Set up for tours and long audax. Big outlay but you get what you pay for. Winter road bike has Shimano dynohub which will run two small lights for road use.
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
£100 for a light? None of my dynamo setups have cost that for dynamo, headlight and taillight. Typically £20 headlight, sub£10 tail and the rest on the dynamo and fixings.Well that's a mixed bag, but has at least answered my questions. I just picked up a Hope Vision 1 as a 'see where I'm going' light for dark lanes, and at £40 is the most I've spent on a light. The idea of £100 upwards for a light, especially given I 'may' need to carry spare battery ones, or indeed still run battery rears, and it starts to look less attractive.
Food for thought though, so appreciate the input folks
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
Not sure I understand the problem with having a cache battery inline... But from your earlier posts, it sounds like you had a dud.Mr Negative here again.
Maybe I just had a dud unit but I found this to be complete pants as the voltage was too unstable. I had to use it to top up a charge tank and use the tank for charging things. This kind of defeated the object of it all.
I'm going to take my wet blanket away and duck out of this thread now!
(Edited to correct spelling. fark you autocorrect.)
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CopperBrompton
Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
- Location
- London
A hub dynamo is one of the best investments you can make in your cycling. The fit-and-forget convenience of just getting on your bike and cycling without ever having to think about charging batteries is something that, once experienced, you'll never want to lose.
Get the SON if budget permits, Shimano if not.
Get the SON if budget permits, Shimano if not.
Andy in Germany
Guru
- Location
- Freiburg im Breisgau
Dynamo systems are mandatory in Germany so all our bikes have them. Most have hub systems and as with others I tend to forget it is there and leave the light on all the time. The 'parking lights' on my setup stay on for ages and give a good strong light too, so I don't carry a battery backup.
I use these headlights, which I'm pretty happy with:
https://www.rosebikes.com/article/b--m-lumotec-lyt-t-senso-plus-front-headlamp/aid:553798
On bikes with a luggage rack I have these:
https://www.rosebikes.com/article/b--m-toplight-flat-plus-dynamo-back-light/aid:190441
on my Xtracycle I use this:
https://www.rosebikes.com/article/b--m-seculite-plus-back-light/aid:50219
I once wanted to see how long it took for the light to go out completely, but I got bored after a while. The front dims slightly when the bike stops but the mudguard mounted rear light shows a bright red for ages.
I use these headlights, which I'm pretty happy with:
https://www.rosebikes.com/article/b--m-lumotec-lyt-t-senso-plus-front-headlamp/aid:553798
On bikes with a luggage rack I have these:
https://www.rosebikes.com/article/b--m-toplight-flat-plus-dynamo-back-light/aid:190441
on my Xtracycle I use this:
https://www.rosebikes.com/article/b--m-seculite-plus-back-light/aid:50219
I once wanted to see how long it took for the light to go out completely, but I got bored after a while. The front dims slightly when the bike stops but the mudguard mounted rear light shows a bright red for ages.
- Location
- Inside my skull
Dynamo system consists of
Dynamo - Hub Dynamo is where it is at now. You need a wheel with the Dynamo built in as the hub.
Front light - You need a Dynamo specific light but generally you can use any front light with any hub Dynamo. You want LED which is the norm now. Most have a stand light capacitor which will keep it lit for about 5 mins when stationary at lights etc. Is wired directly to a connector on the hub Dynamo. Some have sensor mode which means lights come on when it gets dark or gloomy then back off when it gets lighter again. Some have a usb output for charging devices. Most mount on fork crown if you have mudguard eyelets. Have focused optics and output generally listed in Lux which is not the same as Lumens. Output of 70-100 lux is excellent for dark country lanes.
Rear light. Dynamo specific and optional. Most tail lights are wired to the front light. Mostly interchangeable (no need to match manufacturer for front and rear lights) but Supernova may need to be the exception here. Most have a stand light capacitor and will stay on for approx 5 mins when stationary. Both seat stay and rack mounted lights available.
USB. Some front lights have usb output for charging stuff on the go. Otherwise you can wire a uSB charger to the Dynamo in parallel. See stuff like the Igaro USB charger. A smartphone will charge from flat in about three hours of cycling in rolling terrain.
Most dynamo lights are bolted on, not a target of theft and just work. Mine are almost up to 8 years without needing to do anything since I fitted them.
Dynamo - Hub Dynamo is where it is at now. You need a wheel with the Dynamo built in as the hub.
Front light - You need a Dynamo specific light but generally you can use any front light with any hub Dynamo. You want LED which is the norm now. Most have a stand light capacitor which will keep it lit for about 5 mins when stationary at lights etc. Is wired directly to a connector on the hub Dynamo. Some have sensor mode which means lights come on when it gets dark or gloomy then back off when it gets lighter again. Some have a usb output for charging devices. Most mount on fork crown if you have mudguard eyelets. Have focused optics and output generally listed in Lux which is not the same as Lumens. Output of 70-100 lux is excellent for dark country lanes.
Rear light. Dynamo specific and optional. Most tail lights are wired to the front light. Mostly interchangeable (no need to match manufacturer for front and rear lights) but Supernova may need to be the exception here. Most have a stand light capacitor and will stay on for approx 5 mins when stationary. Both seat stay and rack mounted lights available.
USB. Some front lights have usb output for charging stuff on the go. Otherwise you can wire a uSB charger to the Dynamo in parallel. See stuff like the Igaro USB charger. A smartphone will charge from flat in about three hours of cycling in rolling terrain.
Most dynamo lights are bolted on, not a target of theft and just work. Mine are almost up to 8 years without needing to do anything since I fitted them.
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smutchin
Cat 6 Racer
- Location
- The Red Enclave
The voltage is always going to be unstable unless you can maintain a consistent speed at all times! Unfortunately, this is always going to be a problem when using a hub dynamo to charge modern devices that require a constant power input.
The Igaro D1 comes with a stability bank accessory that claims to help with this problem by smoothing out the low frequency AC at low speed, though it still won't provide power when you're not moving. I don't have this accessory, I just use my Igaro to charge an Anker power pack and top up my phone and Garmin from that - this strategy works fine for me.
On long rides, using the Igaro to charge a power pack during the day also means I don't have to use it to power any devices at night, so all the power from the dynamo can be diverted into the lights, where it is most needed.
I have full dynamo lighting set-ups on two bikes - one has a SON hub dynamo paired with a B&M IQ Cyo-T (front) and B&M Secula (rear); the other has a Shimano hub dynamo paired with the Igaro plus a B&M IQ-X (front) and Secula (rear). Both work very well for me and I would recommend them. I used to have just front lights powered by the dynamo, with battery lights at the rear, but I got fed up of forgetting to fit the lights before setting off, or forgetting to charge them. And the Secula is a superb rear light.
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I have had a hub dynamo set-up for a couple of years now and I love it. I went for a Shimano DH-3N72 hub on Exal ZX19 rims from a German company via Ebay - Taylor Wheels are charging £68 for this wheel today. I bought the lights from Rose - B + M Lumotec IQ Cyo Premium T senso plus front headlamp (currently £45) and a B + M Toplight View Brake Plus dynamo back light (currently £16).
The front light is nice and bright at 80 lux and imho, this set-up is a good quality set-up which is good compromise between cost and performance. You can pay a lot more and you can pay a lot less. Before P&P, wheels with the Shimano DH-C3000-3N can be had for about £40 and a less powerful/specced headlamp can be had for as little as £12 and rear lights for less than a tenner.
The front light is nice and bright at 80 lux and imho, this set-up is a good quality set-up which is good compromise between cost and performance. You can pay a lot more and you can pay a lot less. Before P&P, wheels with the Shimano DH-C3000-3N can be had for about £40 and a less powerful/specced headlamp can be had for as little as £12 and rear lights for less than a tenner.
andrew_s
Legendary Member
- Location
- Gloucester
Dynamo categories:
a) Sidewall: B+M Dymotec 6 £32, Axa HR £16, cheap tat £5-£10
These are for those who are fed up with battery lights (for any of several good reasons), and want to convert an existing hack bike to dynamo lighting at minimum cost. The bike should use medium or heavy weight tyres (Marathon or similar). Fitting may required middling brutal clamps now that dynamo bosses on the frame are rare and decent after-market fittings (Dynoshoe, fits to V-brake boss) are no longer available.
b) Sports dynohubs: Shimano DH-3N72 or better (3W), SON, SP or branded versions thereof*. If buying from Germany, don't get a 1.5W hub by mistake.
Performance-wise, there isn't any real difference between any of these. Lab tests with suitably chosen scales may show differences, but there's nothing you would ever feel with your legs, or even by on-the-road timings. Choose on cost, weight, warranty period, maintainability, perceived quality/reliability, and available fittings/drillings. SON have a 5 year warranty, and service is in Germany at something like £55 after that. SP is 2 years, service via Zyro (importers) at £25. Shimano is also 2 years, service after that is DIY (which is possible, with care for the wires). With Shimano hubs, you can also replace the whole generator/bearings/axle hub core. It's no cheaper than a new hub, but saves a wheel rebuild.
*Alpkit, Exposure, Supernova (etc). Supernova has upgraded bearings & seals, others are standard SP hubs.
c) Cheap Shimano dynohubs, other brands such as Sturmey.
These will typically have more drag than the sports hubs (eg 3W lights off rather than 1W), but it's still not much compared to tyre drag etc, and you'd be doing well to feel it. It's the sort of thing that may play on the mind on a long ride though.
d) oddball stuff - eg spoke generators, that fit to the nearside of the rear hub, turned by a peg in the spokes. From what I recall, they are on the heavy side, and give a fairly low output at low speed. Not the sort of thing for a regular bike, but may be usefully better than a sidewall generator in some cases, such as on a cargo trike or something.
[addition] There's also the Velological dynamo, that runs off the side of the rim rather than the tyre. Small, light, relatively expensive (~€150, iirc), and zero drag when off. I'd still worry about slip in wet weather though.
I use SON hubs. They were the only option back in 1998, and I've had no reason to think about changing since.
Lighting problems since I started using dynohubs have been...
a) half a dozen or so blown bulbs
b) 4 failed battery rear lights, before I ran a cable to the back of the bike for a dynamo rear light, plus a couple of others that died after being left rattling about in the bottom of the saddlebag for too long.
c) A B+M 4D-lite plus rear light - standlight electronics; didn't come on until I'd been riding 30 secs or so (replaced by a Seculite)
d) A Solidlight that failed such that it went out as soon as I went over 12 mph, and wouldn't come back on until after I'd come to a complete stop. I was doing 44 mph when this started, on a very dark hill. Exciting! (sent back for repair - there was a general recall soon after)
e) A Seculite that got the lens & reflector knocked off, along with the light spreading widget (replaced)
f) Someone turned my lights off at the pub (presumably trying to be helpful and turn the standlight off), and I spent 3 or 4 minutes checking the dynamo connections before I remembered the switch (it lives in Senso mode, normally)
Everything else has been home workshop - upgrades, moving bits about etc
a) Sidewall: B+M Dymotec 6 £32, Axa HR £16, cheap tat £5-£10
These are for those who are fed up with battery lights (for any of several good reasons), and want to convert an existing hack bike to dynamo lighting at minimum cost. The bike should use medium or heavy weight tyres (Marathon or similar). Fitting may required middling brutal clamps now that dynamo bosses on the frame are rare and decent after-market fittings (Dynoshoe, fits to V-brake boss) are no longer available.
b) Sports dynohubs: Shimano DH-3N72 or better (3W), SON, SP or branded versions thereof*. If buying from Germany, don't get a 1.5W hub by mistake.
Performance-wise, there isn't any real difference between any of these. Lab tests with suitably chosen scales may show differences, but there's nothing you would ever feel with your legs, or even by on-the-road timings. Choose on cost, weight, warranty period, maintainability, perceived quality/reliability, and available fittings/drillings. SON have a 5 year warranty, and service is in Germany at something like £55 after that. SP is 2 years, service via Zyro (importers) at £25. Shimano is also 2 years, service after that is DIY (which is possible, with care for the wires). With Shimano hubs, you can also replace the whole generator/bearings/axle hub core. It's no cheaper than a new hub, but saves a wheel rebuild.
*Alpkit, Exposure, Supernova (etc). Supernova has upgraded bearings & seals, others are standard SP hubs.
c) Cheap Shimano dynohubs, other brands such as Sturmey.
These will typically have more drag than the sports hubs (eg 3W lights off rather than 1W), but it's still not much compared to tyre drag etc, and you'd be doing well to feel it. It's the sort of thing that may play on the mind on a long ride though.
d) oddball stuff - eg spoke generators, that fit to the nearside of the rear hub, turned by a peg in the spokes. From what I recall, they are on the heavy side, and give a fairly low output at low speed. Not the sort of thing for a regular bike, but may be usefully better than a sidewall generator in some cases, such as on a cargo trike or something.
[addition] There's also the Velological dynamo, that runs off the side of the rim rather than the tyre. Small, light, relatively expensive (~€150, iirc), and zero drag when off. I'd still worry about slip in wet weather though.
I use SON hubs. They were the only option back in 1998, and I've had no reason to think about changing since.
Lighting problems since I started using dynohubs have been...
a) half a dozen or so blown bulbs
b) 4 failed battery rear lights, before I ran a cable to the back of the bike for a dynamo rear light, plus a couple of others that died after being left rattling about in the bottom of the saddlebag for too long.
c) A B+M 4D-lite plus rear light - standlight electronics; didn't come on until I'd been riding 30 secs or so (replaced by a Seculite)
d) A Solidlight that failed such that it went out as soon as I went over 12 mph, and wouldn't come back on until after I'd come to a complete stop. I was doing 44 mph when this started, on a very dark hill. Exciting! (sent back for repair - there was a general recall soon after)
e) A Seculite that got the lens & reflector knocked off, along with the light spreading widget (replaced)
f) Someone turned my lights off at the pub (presumably trying to be helpful and turn the standlight off), and I spent 3 or 4 minutes checking the dynamo connections before I remembered the switch (it lives in Senso mode, normally)
Everything else has been home workshop - upgrades, moving bits about etc
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mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
A couple of updates to that: the HS4xx Marathons no longer seem to have a dynamo track, but the Delta Cruisers still do. You can use tyres without sidewall tracks but the dynamo may slip more or wear its roller more quickly.
V brake fittings are still available for the Axa HR which may fit others. https://www.rosebikes.com/article/axa-soubitez-dynamo-holder/aid:50227 but I expect they're available more cheaply with a little searching.
andrew_s
Legendary Member
- Location
- Gloucester
A proper dynamo track is best, but the main thing is that the roller has to run on non-knobbly rubber. If the roller runs on a visibly fabric sidewall, you're asking for a dead tyre. With (eg) a Panaracer Pasela, it is possible to use the edge of the tread, but running the dynamo wide enough and high enough doesn't make mounting it easy.
The ability to run a dynamo on light tyres was why roller (bottom bracket) dynamos used to exist. It's a very mucky location though, so they often didn't last longer than a year or two. You could also fit them on the underside of a front rack deck, which was better, but needed the rack.
(Velological rim dynamo added to previous post)
