canals, walkers and bell tinklers...

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gambatte

Middle of the pack...
Location
S Yorks
The 'horse issue' is an interesting diversion, but seems to have sidetracked the original post. If anyones interested I've started another thread with a poll.

See how much support Simons opinion has on here?
 
simoncc said:
Unpredictable vehicles are not allowed on the road, except for horses.

All vehicles are unpredictable ... How mant times has a cyclist (or motor cyclist) turned into a corner and the front end of the bike has washed out on something slippery ? you are now in danger of being hit by another vehicle following or approaching ... how many times do car drivers have accidents that dont involve other vehiles ? 1000's per year i suspect ... how many times do you hear on the radio that a lorry or car and caravan has jack knifed ? 100's

Horse riders are banned from motorways. The time has come to ban them from all roads. Many ordinary roads today are much busier than motorways were when they were introduced.

So are learner drivers and CYCLIST ... shall we ban those as well

Simon you are a complete F**kwit bordering on troll like

Jakes Dad
 

domtyler

Über Member
Maz said:
Since you ask - domtyler: 5'8". Mid-30s. Slim build. Definitely dark hair. Clean shaven. Am I right, or am I right?

:sad:

Not a bad effort Maz, unfortunately you will find that I am sporting a beard these days, I am surprised this has not come across in my posts to be honest. :biggrin:

Also, you forgot the devastatingly good looking bit! :idea:
 

Maz

Guru
domtyler said:
:sad:

Not a bad effort Maz, unfortunately you will find that I am sporting a beard these days, I am surprised this has not come across in my posts to be honest. :biggrin:

Also, you forgot the devastatingly good looking bit! :idea:
Cheers. It was difficult to tell if you were sporting a beard or not, what with that mask you're wearing in your avatar. :smile:
 

domtyler

Über Member
SimonCC has suffered an unacceptable level of abuse in this thread. He has only voiced an opinion, and it is an entirely valid one too. Small minded and selfish, maybe, but it is a valid POV. Should anyone have to toe the forum line or risk being called "Troll", "F**kwit", "peanut" etc.? Come on, this is not why I come here and I am pretty sure it's not why many of you come here either. It may be acceptable on certain other forums but let's not let this one go that way eh?
 
domtyler said:
He has only voiced an opinion, and it is an entirely valid one too. Small minded and selfish, maybe, but it is a valid POV. Should anyone have to toe the forum line or risk being called "Troll", "F**kwit", "peanut" etc.? Come on, this is not why I come here and I am pretty sure it's not why many of you come here either. It may be acceptable on certain other forums but let's not let this one go that way eh?


Point taken Dom ... I'l retract the bit about car & caravan drivers (they should be banned) :idea:

No really point taken

Simon
 

Pete

Guest
domtyler said:
...Should anyone have to toe the forum line or risk being called "Troll", "F**kwit", "peanut" etc.?
Forums are, almost by their very definition, places where people work up anger, and then work it out. Insults will be traded, like it or not. Especially when a forum has a Soapbox which acts as a magnet to this sort of stuff.

However, might it not be a good idea if everyone were to click the Preview Post button first of all, and read through their entire post once more, before actually submitting it? I usually do. Indeed, I know of one (non-cycling) forum where you're actually forced to do that - the Submit button takes you to preview mode and you have to click a Confirm button to post it.
 

LLB

Guest
simoncc said:
That's very true. That's why we ban faulty motor vehicles from the roads and why we ban people from driving them if they behave unpredictably for any reason, such as drink, drugs, old age, using a phone or simply carelessness. Horses are often unpredictable on the roads. That's why they should be banned. And I simply don't believe that most horse owners are considerate of their horse's feelings. I see too many very nervous and distressed horses on public roads for that.

And Arch, riding a horse on a public road is never the only way to get to a bridle path. Have you ever heard of horseboxes? I suspect that most riders would prefer not to go to the inconvenience or expense of one, just as most riders prefer their horses to be nervous and jittery in traffic rather than spend time and money training their horses as the police train theirs.

Many off-road motorcyclists take their bikes to off-road facilities on trailers because the bikes are not suitable or legal for road use. The same arrangement should be brought in for horses.

Are horse owners a powerful group within the RSPCA? I can't think why they haven't tried to get horses off the road for animal cruelty reasons. Most horses just do not look like they are having a good time on the roads to me.

Its a shame that you aren't a deep thinker SimonCC or you would have worked through the answers before you hit the submit reply button.

How do you think that horse riders condition a horse to road furniture ? = If the horse shies away from a parked lorry, or a tractor, or a manhole cover or anything else they don't like the look of, they are brought to this object and shown that it is not a threat to their safety. This doesn't happen overnight, it takes time and you cannot replicate this sort of thing in a field or paddock. To make a horse safe be it a police horse, or a privately owned one, it needs to be educated and that can only be done in situ, not by proxy !

As for the Horseboxes quip ?. The option for moving horses about is to either hack them (impractical in many situations over any distance as there are just too many inconsiderate other users out there, as well as the weight of traffic on many roads), use a large car (4x4) with a trailer as I do (expensive as it has to double up as regular transport), or to use a lorry (very expensive to buy (£20k upwards for a 10 year old Horsebox), and very thirsty due to their weight (single figure MPG), they usually stand idle for 6 out of 7 days a week (to seize up), class 7 MOT plating or if bigger, a ministry test which is big bucks, and storage for them is difficult to acquire). Most will also soon to be subject to the LEZ charge of £200 per day if they need to enter the M25.

Also is the problem of parking the said transport when out. When I have the trailer on the back, I am very limited where I can stop due to the size of the combination. I have to park wherever I can safely unload them which could be a pub car park, or a very quiet back road where there is not loads of cars zooming past, and where I'm not in fear of some idiot breaking into the car whilst we are gone, and then I still have to hack on a road to the bridleway entrance. I can't just park across the bridleway entrance, and any layby's close to the entrances are 'yes you guessed it' - on the road. Cars and lorries aren't allowed onto Bridlepaths, even if they are carrying horses.

Having Horse transport is liberating, and you can look at any horse owners forum to see multiple posts where the owners are trying to figure out how they can get transport for their animals.
To get a total ban on horses on the roads as you want, would you be happy to subsidise upgrading of the bridleway network for continuous paths, or making all sustrans routes converted to accept horses as well ?, Horses are only legally allowed on the roads, not on pavements.

you are already bitching and moaning about the license fee - which is elective, how well would it go down to be forced to pay a compulsory fee on this in your taxes ?

Whilst we are on the subject of animals on the roads, Dairy cattle are driven daily on rural roads the length and breadth of the country from their fields to milking parlours to provide you with the dairy products you take for granted every time you go shopping or put the kettle on. Would you want cows to be banned for the roads as well ?
 

Dave5N

Über Member
I feel very uncomfortable finding myself so firmly in agreement with the horse-riding community.

Or reactionary bourgeois oppressors... et cetera et cetera

See what you've done Simon?

Still,as Lenin said, my enemy's enemy is my friend. ;)
 

LLB

Guest
bonj said:
Bollocks are horseriders the most vulnerable road users. They're not as vulnerable as cyclists. If a horserider gets near a cyclists, it's the cyclist that's at risk from the horse, the horse is never at risk from the cylist. The cyclist doesn't pose any risk whatsoever to the horse, but the horse is bigger and could quite easily throw a wobbly and kick the cyclist in. In my view something with 'quirks' that could possibly be dangerous shouldn't be taken on the road, but horseriders seem to consider that this is out of the question.

There is no rule of priority that cyclists should be given way to, as in an official legal thing. The reason cyclists have to give way to horse riders is that horses are dangerous, and pose a threat to cyclists, and walkers for that matter.

Horses are allowed on the road because they are under the control of the riders. If a cyclist were to act in a way to deliberately frighten the horse, then both the horse and its rider could be put in extreme danger. They are fight or flight animals, and 99 times out of 100, they would run from people on cycles acting in an aggressive manner.

The fight bit would only happen if the horse was cornered which is very unlikely on a main road.

The reason why Horses are given way to is because they are animals and as such inherently more difficult to control than a piece of machinery.
The same thing happens on waterways with sailing boats and motor boats. The sailing boats always have right of way because they are more difficult to control, and may have to take an unorthadox route when passing other craft.
 

bonj2

Guest
linfordlunchbox said:
Horses are allowed on the road because they are under the control of the riders. If a cyclist were to act in a way to deliberately frighten the horse, then both the horse and its rider could be put in extreme danger. They are fight or flight animals, and 99 times out of 100, they would run from people on cycles acting in an aggressive manner.

The fight bit would only happen if the horse was cornered which is very unlikely on a main road.

The reason why Horses are given way to is because they are animals and as such inherently more difficult to control than a piece of machinery.
The same thing happens on waterways with sailing boats and motor boats. The sailing boats always have right of way because they are more difficult to control, and may have to take an unorthadox route when passing other craft.
answered it in http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=8136&page=2
 

simoncc

New Member
If the lower orders rode horses, then horses on roads and their dangerous, nervous, unpredictable behaviour would be banned.

Most horse riders don't care about their horses too much. If they did they wouldn't take them on roads.
 

gambatte

Middle of the pack...
Location
S Yorks
simoncc said:
Most horse riders don't care about their horses too much. If they did they wouldn't take them on roads.

I agreed with the previous comments about name calling.

However, comments like this seemed designed to invite them.
 
U

User482

Guest
I only see horses in small numbers on quiet country roads, and very rarely do they look as if they're about to lose control.

Don't see what the problem is myself.
 
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