canals, walkers and bell tinklers...

[simoncc]

If you want to have a play at being moderator, by all means PM admin and see what he thinks. If you want to know what the original wording of my post was, before I edited it to tone it down a bit: well, for your information, what I said originally was "I find your post despicable". How about that? Perhaps language you would have understood better? Anyway forums are all about people disagreeing at times. We won't come to an agreement on this one. Leave it at that.

I'm uninterested in how despicable you think I am. This should save you the trouble of telling me such things in future. I have no interest in moderating what you say, nor have I said anyhting to make you believe I am. Forums are indeed about people disagreeing at times. Some people have mastered the art of disagreeing with others without the need to say how despicable they regard those with whom they disagree. Others haven't, have they?

I think horses should be banned from public roads unless they have been trained to cope as well as police horses are. They are a danger to themselves and other road users, including their riders, and they also seem not to enjoy being there. On public safety and animal crulety matters I think it is better that they are banned.

 

[Maz]

Have to say I have NEVER found horse riders anything other than courteous and pleasant. And in control.

Which is astonishing really because they are all without exception reactionary bourgeois representatives of the hated oppressive ruling classes who will pay the price for their unjust dominion of the glorious cycling proletariat and whose time will surely come to answer to the people's justice at summary revolutionary tribunals.

Admittedly some of the women do wear nice jodhpurs.

Come the revolution, the yoke of oppression will be removed from the necks of the proletariat.

And yes, the jodphurs. I agree.

 

[Arch]

Come the revolution, the yoke of oppression will be removed from the necks of the proletariat.

And yes, the jodphurs. I agree.

Probably not in my case, in jodhpurs I look as much like a beached whale as I do in everything else I wear.

Does it make it alright for me to ride, if I scrimp and save to afford the lessons and then have to give up when I don't have the money to spare? I'm sick of the idea that all horse riders are rich and snooty. Yes, you need a certain amount of money to OWN a horse, and keep it properly, although many people make sacrifices in other areas in order to do it. But some of us make do with hiring one for an hours lesson a week.

For the record, all the horses I've ever ridden on the road have been perfectly happy and calm, because they've been experienced sensible animals and well used to traffic. And they will be happy unless some muppet treats them in the sort of way we as cyclists prefer not to be treated. If someone passes me stupidly fast or close when I'd out cycling, whether they are on a bike or in a car, or a van or whatever, I feel uneasy and jumpy. We'd all rather not ride on the road, but until there's a bridle path network covering every field in the country, sometimes it can't be helped, to get to the bridle path.

Anyway, come the revolution, the oil will have run out, so horses will be much more important again...

 

[simoncc]

Probably not in my case, in jodhpurs I look as much like a beached whale as I do in everything else I wear.

Does it make it alright for me to ride, if I scrimp and save to afford the lessons and then have to give up when I don't have the money to spare? I'm sick of the idea that all horse riders are rich and snooty. Yes, you need a certain amount of money to OWN a horse, and keep it properly, although many people make sacrifices in other areas in order to do it. But some of us make do with hiring one for an hours lesson a week.

For the record, all the horses I've ever ridden on the road have been perfectly happy and calm, because they've been experienced sensible animals and well used to traffic. And they will be happy unless some muppet treats them in the sort of way we as cyclists prefer not to be treated. If someone passes me stupidly fast or close when I'd out cycling, whether they are on a bike or in a car, or a van or whatever, I feel uneasy and jumpy. We'd all rather not ride on the road, but until there's a bridle path network covering every field in the country, sometimes it can't be helped, to get to the bridle path.

Anyway, come the revolution, the oil will have run out, so horses will be much more important again...

I've yet to see a cyclist remotely as nervous and jumpy as many horses are in traffic. It's not hard to understand why. Anyone so nervous and jumpy in traffic is very unlikely to consider a pushbike as a means of transport. Who would use a bike if even the slight whirring sound of another cyclist approaching from behind caused them to be startled enough to leap from their own bike and start running randomly all over the road? Unfortunately for nervous and jumpy horses the choice of whether to go out onto public roads is not theirs, but their owners, and many owners don't seem to care that their horse doesn't enjoy being out there, and reacts badly to the slightest noise or distraction.

A nice ride along a busyish country lane outside town might seem wonderful for many a horserider, but I bet most of their mounts would forego the pleasure given the choice.

 

[col]

Probably not in my case, in jodhpurs I look as much like a beached whale as I do in everything else I wear.

Does it make it alright for me to ride, if I scrimp and save to afford the lessons and then have to give up when I don't have the money to spare? I'm sick of the idea that all horse riders are rich and snooty. Yes, you need a certain amount of money to OWN a horse, and keep it properly, although many people make sacrifices in other areas in order to do it. But some of us make do with hiring one for an hours lesson a week.

For the record, all the horses I've ever ridden on the road have been perfectly happy and calm, because they've been experienced sensible animals and well used to traffic. And they will be happy unless some muppet treats them in the sort of way we as cyclists prefer not to be treated. If someone passes me stupidly fast or close when I'd out cycling, whether they are on a bike or in a car, or a van or whatever, I feel uneasy and jumpy. We'd all rather not ride on the road, but until there's a bridle path network covering every field in the country, sometimes it can't be helped, to get to the bridle path.

Anyway, come the revolution, the oil will have run out, so horses will be much more important again...

I didnt know you can make oil out of horses?

 

[col]

I've yet to see a cyclist remotely as nervous and jumpy as many horses are in traffic. It's not hard to understand why. Anyone so nervous and jumpy in traffic is very unlikely to consider a pushbike as a means of transport. Who would use a bike if even the slight whirring sound of another cyclist approaching from behind caused them to be startled enough to leap from their own bike and start running randomly all over the road? Unfortunately for nervous and jumpy horses the choice of whether to go out onto public roads is not theirs, but their owners, and many owners don't seem to care that their horse doesn't enjoy being out there, and reacts badly to the slightest noise or distraction.

A nice ride along a busyish country lane outside town might seem wonderful for many a horserider, but I bet most of their mounts would forego the pleasure given the choice.

I think what your forgetting here,is that most people who own or keep horses,tend to look after them very well,and treat them more like friends than animals,im sure if a horse wasnt happy about roads,the rider wouldnt force it on to them,and knowing a horse owner some time ago,they know what their friend likes or dislikes are.

 

[Arch]

A nice ride along a busyish country lane outside town might seem wonderful for many a horserider, but I bet most of their mounts would forego the pleasure given the choice.

No, I don't think any rider would choose to ride along a road, busyish or completely empty. Apart from anything else, tarmac is not a forgiving surface to ride on - it's harsh underfoot, noisy, and nasty to fall onto. But sometimes its THE ONLY WAY to get to a bridle path that you can enjoy riding on. On a typical hack from the stabes I use, we have to ride for maybe 10 minutes at each end of the ride, on the road. The rest of the time we are in fields, woodland, bridle paths - all much nicer. BTW, the nearest bridle path is also the York-Selby bike path - we ride beside it on the soft verge. Would you ban us from there as well, on the grounds that cyclists might want to bomb past with no consideration?

Col - you are right, most horse owners (and even renters, like me) adore their mounts. Just like with dogs or children, they would prefer to be running about on grassy fields, but to get there, you usually have to use on a bit of tarmac.

I dunno about the oil from horses thing I do know that horse fat is polyunsaturated, and therefore better for you than beef or lamb fat.

 

[Gerry Attrick]

It seems to me that Simon wants to ban horses and riders with an attitude not in accordance with his. I reckon we should petition the Government to ban all bike riders with the "wrong" attitude. Simon could then take up knitting or other risk-free pleasure.

 

[domd1979]

I have. Namely f**kwits out fox hunting.

Have to say I have NEVER found horse riders anything other than courteous and pleasant. And in control.

 

[simoncc]

Simon wants to ban all vehicles that aren't 100% predictable.

That's very true. That's why we ban faulty motor vehicles from the roads and why we ban people from driving them if they behave unpredictably for any reason, such as drink, drugs, old age, using a phone or simply carelessness. Horses are often unpredictable on the roads. That's why they should be banned. And I simply don't believe that most horse owners are considerate of their horse's feelings. I see too many very nervous and distressed horses on public roads for that.

And Arch, riding a horse on a public road is never the only way to get to a bridle path. Have you ever heard of horseboxes? I suspect that most riders would prefer not to go to the inconvenience or expense of one, just as most riders prefer their horses to be nervous and jittery in traffic rather than spend time and money training their horses as the police train theirs.

Many off-road motorcyclists take their bikes to off-road facilities on trailers because the bikes are not suitable or legal for road use. The same arrangement should be brought in for horses.

Are horse owners a powerful group within the RSPCA? I can't think why they haven't tried to get horses off the road for animal cruelty reasons. Most horses just do not look like they are having a good time on the roads to me.

 

[Tynan]

cyclists think horse shouldn't be on the road?

ooo the irony

my daughter rides for a couple of hours a week, she enjoys it very much and it costs us £21/week, and yes, they sometimes ride on the road to get to another part of Epping Forest

 

[Gerry Attrick]

That's very true. That's why we ban faulty motor vehicles from the roads and why we ban people from driving them if they behave unpredictably for any reason, such as drink, drugs, old age, using a phone or simply carelessness. Horses are often unpredictable on the roads. That's why they should be banned. And I simply don't believe that most horse owners are considerate of their horse's feelings. I see too many very nervous and distressed horses on public roads for that.

And Arch, riding a horse on a public road is never the only way to get to a bridle path. Have you ever heard of horseboxes? I suspect that most riders would prefer not to go to the inconvenience or expense of one, just as most riders prefer their horses to be nervous and jittery in traffic rather than spend time and money training their horses as the police train theirs.

Many off-road motorcyclists take their bikes to off-road facilities on trailers because the bikes are not suitable or legal for road use. The same arrangement should be brought in for horses.

Are horse owners a powerful group within the RSPCA? I can't think why they haven't tried to get horses off the road for animal cruelty reasons. Most horses just do not look like they are having a good time on the roads to me.

It appears Simon is also an expert animal behaviourist!

I accept that some horses can be nervous in traffic, but what may look like nervousness to Simon can also be spirit. The horse is not necessarily more dangerous because of it. In any event, if other road users treat horses with courtesy and respect and give them a wide berth, the granny pushing a pram out on to the road without warning constitutes greater risk. Maybe Simon, you would also ban grannies?

 

[Rhythm Thief]

Horses are often unpredictable on the roads. That's why they should be banned. And I simply don't believe that most horse owners are considerate of their horse's feelings. I see too many very nervous and distressed horses on public roads for that.

And Arch, riding a horse on a public road is never the only way to get to a bridle path. Have you ever heard of horseboxes? I suspect that most riders would prefer not to go to the inconvenience or expense of one, just as most riders prefer their horses to be nervous and jittery in traffic rather than spend time and money training their horses as the police train theirs.

Many off-road motorcyclists take their bikes to off-road facilities on trailers because the bikes are not suitable or legal for road use. The same arrangement should be brought in for horses.

Are horse owners a powerful group within the RSPCA? I can't think why they haven't tried to get horses off the road for animal cruelty reasons. Most horses just do not look like they are having a good time on the roads to me.

All conjecture based on "what you reckon" rather than any actual facts or evidence. If you think horses are unpredictable, that's fine. But if you treat them all as unpredictable and pass them accordingly when you meet them on the road, they'll be fine.

 

[bonj2]

Horse riders are by far the most vulnerable users on the roads, They don't just have the quirks of the animal in their charge to consider, they also have to put up with ignorant and inconsiderate behaviour of (some) other road users. I think its only right that they should ride as defensively as possible when they use them for the protection of all.

Would you care to elaborate on this statement ?

Bollocks are horseriders the most vulnerable road users. They're not as vulnerable as cyclists. If a horserider gets near a cyclists, it's the cyclist that's at risk from the horse, the horse is never at risk from the cylist. The cyclist doesn't pose any risk whatsoever to the horse, but the horse is bigger and could quite easily throw a wobbly and kick the cyclist in. In my view something with 'quirks' that could possibly be dangerous shouldn't be taken on the road, but horseriders seem to consider that this is out of the question.

I have only once in recent months had a hostile reaction to an "excuse me": this was a few days ago on a bridle path, not a towpath. And I was having a 'bad day' anyway (posted elsewhere). Although cyclists are allowed to use them, there are rules of priority: cyclists should give way to pedestrians and horseriders. But an "excuse me" usually works fine. I don't like bells because they're a bit impersonal, to me they're the cycling equivalent of a motorist impatiently honking his horn (something I loathe). That's my view.

There is no rule of priority that cyclists should be given way to, as in an official legal thing. The reason cyclists have to give way to horse riders is that horses are dangerous, and pose a threat to cyclists, and walkers for that matter.

 

[bonj2]

I occasionally have to overtake a horse and rider on my way to work.
What's best to do? Just give them a wide berth? Do you speak to the rider when you're still behind them to let them know you're about to overtake?

No, don't speak to them from behind 'cos it might 'spook the horse'. Don't overtake too close 'cos it might 'spook the horse'. Don't go over 5 mph 'cos it might 'spook the horse'. In fact, the best thing to do is just to stay as far away as possible and don't make any sudden movements or loud noises.