Cars overtaking when you're turning right

[JamesAC]

"I was considering a drop down flag from under my arm with the words "I really am turning right!" written on it"
Like it ! - who's gonna trial this ?

What's needed is a "Batman" style cloak, in hi-viz yellow, with appropriate black arrows. Then, as you approach the turn, you extend the right (or left) arm, and reveal a HUGE yellow canvas emblazoned with the arrow.

I think (to be serious!!) that it's all about being sufficiently assertive to ensure your (and your son's) safety. Any where on your journey where there is a potential hazard (junction on the left, traffic islands on the right, parked vehicles on both sides), you should cycle in the Primary Position - ie, in the middle of the lane of moving traffic. This means that 1) the motorist behind can see you - you're right in front of him! 2) Your position makes it nigh on impossible for the motorist to overtake you in what is a dangerous place; 3) if he really does try and squeeze past, you have a yard or so on your left hand side to escape into. But, because the Primary Position does restrict the passage of motor vehicles, you should only use it when road conditions are a potential hazard for you. As soon as things ease up (you've passed the junction/traffic island etc) move onto the Secondary Position - roughly the track of the nearside wheel of a motor car. NEVER cycle in the gutter - it is really dangerous: broken glass, bits of metal dropped off cars, missing drain covers, pot-holes - and no where to move to if someone tries to squeeze past.

Apologies if you think I need to construct a phrase involving grandmothers, eggs and sucking.

 

[Array]

Thanks James. Main problem seems to be that being out in the road in Primary position doesn't stop people that are determined to overtake though. They actually pull out to overtake onto the other side of the road! I'm thinking more of times when I'm travelling along a road that continues but I want to take a road off to the right and there are no islands etc. Just one lane in either direction. So I'm having to stop in the middle of the road once I'm out and wait for a gap in oncoming traffic too. I can't maintain speed to flow with the cars.

 

[Crankarm]

Thanks James. Main problem seems to be that being out in the road in Primary position doesn't stop people that are determined to overtake though. They actually pull out to overtake onto the other side of the road! I'm thinking more of times when I'm travelling along a road that continues but I want to take a road off to the right and there are no islands etc. Just one lane in either direction. So I'm having to stop in the middle of the road once I'm out and wait for a gap in oncoming traffic too. I can't maintain speed to flow with the cars.

If the traffic on this road is really as dangerous as you claim then I certainly wouldn't risk being on it myself let alone taking my young child on the back of my bike! You could write to the council that has responsibility for the road requesting they consider alterations to the current road layout or to provide some warning signs or cameras. Make it very clear that both you and your child's life are regularly put in danger by inconsiderate and dangerous driving. Perhaps you could even get your local plods involved but don't hold out for any help from them as more often than not they are as helpful as a bucket of c**p. I would seriously consider finding another safer route.

 

[Array]

You could write to the council that has responsibility for the road requesting they consider alterations to the current road layout or to provide some warning signs or cameras.

I have taken up issues with the council before and all they do is give this sort of response...

Thank you for your email regarding the above.

Your comments and observations are acknowledged, and I do understand your concern.

As you will appreciate, many requests are received from all over the City for measures to improve road safety, or to address a specific traffic related issue. As a result, it is necessary to prioritise highway improvement schemes in the form of an approved Traffic Management Works Programme, which is revised annually. Priority for inclusion in the Works Programme is generally give to those roads or junctions that have a relatively poor injury accident record, although other factors are taken into consideration. For example, schemes that encourage the use of public transport, walking and cycling often receive greater priority.

Ideally, the City Council would be more pro-active and try to prevent accidents occurring in the first place, rather than reacting to existing problems. However, to give you an indication of the task facing the City Council in relation to improving road safety, there are currently over 190 locations throughout the City where 5 or more injury accidents have been recorded in the last 3 years (within a 40m radius), and a number of these locations have experienced 8 or more accidents. I should point out that 'damage-only' accidents are not recorded.

In addition, many traffic management measures can only be introduced on the public highway with the support of a formal Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) or Notice, which provides the legal basis for the restrictions and any subsequent enforcement action that may be taken (such as parking restrictions, one-way's, banned movements or speed humps/cushions). Unfortunately, the lengthy, resource intensive statutory legal procedure that must be followed to establish a TRO or Notice can take up to 6 months or more to complete and involves consultation, the public advertisement of the proposals and the resolution of any objections.

I hope you can appreciate from the above, therefore, that measures to regulate vehicle movements on the public highway is not a straightforward undertaking, and it is essential that the limited resources available for this type of work are carefully prioritised.

Nevertheless, I will forward a copy of this correspondence to the Senior Traffic Engineer, Andrew Spicer, who will arrange for site observations to be undertaken, and the existing accident data investigated. If relatively current traffic count information (speed and volume) is not available but is considered appropriate, these counts will also be carried out. If the results of these observations and investigations show that the road should be considered for the introduction of traffic calming measures, a scheme will be put forward as a contender for possible inclusion in a future Traffic Management Works Programme.

Unfortunately, due to our current workload and other approved priorities, I am unable to provide you with a firm commitment as to when the site investigations will take place, but we will endeavour to move the matter forward at the earliest opportunity.

I trust that the above is useful and provides you with the information you require, but please do not hesitate to contact me if I can be of further assistance.

Yours sincerely,

Neil Terry
Area Traffic Engineering Team Leader
City Developments
Bristol City Council


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In short, we'd like to help and not offer excuses instead, but we can't.

 

[Array]

If the traffic on this road is really as dangerous

Unfortunatley it's not just one road. It happens all the time. In different locations. I don't always go to one place. I have a lot of varied things to get done in my days. Avoiding all roads where it "might" happen and predicting it would be impossible to the point where I'd just end up getting in a car for journeys with my son. And that's how all the traffic jams start isn't it? I can't stand driving around a city. You get nowhere fast, especially in Bristol. And I can't afford it, or the crazily priced unreliable public transport we have here.

 

[Crankarm]

Perhaps you should write a response to their generic letter along the lines....

Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your letter(s) dated. As you will be aware I have previously written to you regarding..........on [dates].

However on each occasion you have provided what appears to be a standard response [dates and copies enclosed] as to why you cannot improve the provisions for safety of cyclists at these locations. Please could you kindly provide details of your cycling policy in the city as determined by the government and details of your commitment and projects to reducing motor vehicle journeys in the city and providing cycling facilities?

I should also inform you that should I or any of my children be injured or fatally injured whilst negotiating these [above] locations on my bicycle that I have indicated to you as being in need of improved provision for cyclists then I shall instruct my legal representatives to pursue you as a co-defendant for any compensation by virtue of your failure of duty to make the road layout safe for cyclists. You are now on notice.

I look forward to you response.

 

[dellzeqq]

I'm a little less sanguine than some of the respondents. I turn right for two, in the sense that I do the signalling for someone behind me who then follows my lead when I signal to her. My advice would be

- when looking over your shoulder, establish eye contact
- when signalling point outward with your finger, and look pretty ****ing determined. This sounds silly, but, believe me, in tandem with looking at their eyes, it works a good deal of the time.
- have a plan B. If they're not going to stop, they're not going to stop. Be prepared to bale out of the right turn.

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