Change wheels or just tyres? Audax bike

[Magpies]

My Spa Ti Audax runs on Rigida Chrina 36h rims / Sapim spokes and Schwalbe Durano 700c x 25 tyres with Shimano 105 hubs. The wheelset weighs in at around 1700 gms front + rear. I use the bike for fast touring - toolkit but no heavy luggage - so a total load of ~75-80kg.

I’m looking for lighter and faster wheels for long day rides.

Am I better off replacing the entire wheelset, or just the tyres? If just the tyres, what’s out there other than the Durano that is a good compromise between lightness, durability and puncture-resistance?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[si_c]

1700g for 36h alloy wheels is pretty good - you'll struggle to find lighter or as reliable.

 

[chris-suffolk]

I run (folding) Durano plus on my road bike over the winter . Folding weighs less than the wire-on model. Over the summer I switch to Conti GP II s. Never had a flat on either set up. Contis are quite a bit lighter, but definitely need a bit more care when it comes to rough sections (side walls especially are tender), and I usually get off for even for gravel drives to the tea shop. Duranos are harder wearing, and cost less, but the ride isn't as nice. You pays your money as they say.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Majority of weight saving on wheels is hubs. You could save 400g just by changing to lighter but more expensive hubs.

 

[Magpies]

Thanks for the advice.
Any recommendations for lighter hubs that don't break the bank? I'd budgeted around £300 for new wheels if required but suspect this may not get me very light hubs!

 

[si_c]

For that sort of budget you're not looking to shave much weight off the wheels - I'm assuming you have 105 - 5800 hubs - sp they weight about 500g for the pair. You could get a set of Novatec hubs which might drop the weight of the hubs to about 340g so Novatec Superlights (A291 front, F482 rear for example) which would set you back about 140 for the hubs and you could then get some rims and spokes and get them built up, pricewise it's going to be close.

The alternative is DCR wheels - they advertise a Novatec wheelset with DT swiss rims for about £300 and they have a very good reputation, best asking them about weight as a quick estimate in my head brings it to somwhere about 1600g anyway.

 

[Magpies]

Thanks Si, Chris and YB.

 

[wafter]

1700g for 36h alloy wheels is pretty good - you'll struggle to find lighter or as reliable.

My thoughts exactly.

Majority of weight saving on wheels is hubs. You could save 400g just by changing to lighter but more expensive hubs.

Maybe, maybe not. I'd have thought losing some spokes would have been of more benefit from a mass perspective (especially considering the rotating mass argument since they're at the very centre of the wheel).

FWIW the original wheelset seems pretty lightweight as it is (seems to me that spunking £500+ on replacements will only get you down to maybe 1400g) and I'd challenge anyone but the most experienced racing snake on a sub-6kg bike to notice a 300g saving on wheels; especially if the saving has been made right near the axle.

IMO any changes to the OP's wheels in the name of mass saving would be an enormous waste of time and money with no tangible gain. I believe Duranos are at the more "resileant" end of the Schwalbe lineup so some gain might be possible here in switching to a lighter, lower-CRR model like the evergreen Conti GP5000s. For what the OP wants I think this is going to see the biggest potential improvement, while also proving the most straightforward and cost-effective option.

 

[Magpies]

Thanks Wafter - I've arrived at the same conclusion. I'm looking into Durano replacements first. The Conti GP5000s are on my list.

 

[fossyant]

Shaving weight off a hub won't make any difference to wheel performance as it's static weight. As said, 1700g isn't bad. The rims aren't premium ones, so you may save a little there, but you are talking a few hundred for handbuilts.

Certainly look at tyres first. I found Durano Plus a bit 'slow' but it was for commuting and flat protection - they were great for that. I always found Conti 4 seasons my usually preferred fast and robust tyre, but part of my commute used an old disused railway (Fallowfield Loop) and it was full of glass - destroyed the Contis. The Duanos were cut to bits but surived.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

My thoughts exactly.


Maybe, maybe not. I'd have thought losing some spokes would have been of more benefit from a mass perspective (especially considering the rotating mass argument since they're at the very centre of the wheel).

FWIW the original wheelset seems pretty lightweight as it is (seems to me that spunking £500+ on replacements will only get you down to maybe 1400g) and I'd challenge anyone but the most experienced racing snake on a sub-6kg bike to notice a 300g saving on wheels; especially if the saving has been made right near the axle.

IMO any changes to the OP's wheels in the name of mass saving would be an enormous waste of time and money with no tangible gain. I believe Duranos are at the more "resileant" end of the Schwalbe lineup so some gain might be possible here in switching to a lighter, lower-CRR model like the evergreen Conti GP5000s. For what the OP wants I think this is going to see the biggest potential improvement, while also proving the most straightforward and cost-effective option.

Spokes weigh 4-5g , so even losing 16 spokes on each wheel that only saves about 150g total. Meanwhile you have a much weaker / less reliable wheel.

 

[Magpies]

Besides the Conti GP5000s, other suggestions have been the Michelin Pro 4 Endurance, and Schwalbe One V-guard. All have less CRR than my current Duranos. The GP 5000s are the fastest but least puncture-resistant (by the bike rolling resistance website's reckoning), the Michelin's are slowest but most resistant and the Schwalbes are in between.

Never used any of these before. Any advice from real-life users? Note that my intended use is for long rides on tarmac or dry track, occasionally with potholes and rarely, flints or glass debris.

Thanks.

 

[chris-suffolk]

Not sure of the difference between Conti GP5000 and GP4000 s II (the ones I use), but I find the 4000's to be quite puncture resistant (to the extent that I've not had one in 3 sets of them)

 

[wafter]

Spokes weigh 4-5g , so even losing 16 spokes on each wheel that only saves about 150g total. Meanwhile you have a much weaker / less reliable wheel.

The mass of the spokes is much further away from the centre of the wheel though, so have a far greater effect on rotating mass than the hub.. either way I don't think there's enough to be saved to warrant bothering, regardless of where it's lost.

 

[DCLane]

Not sure of the difference between Conti GP5000 and GP4000 s II (the ones I use), but I find the 4000's to be quite puncture resistant (to the extent that I've not had one in 3 sets of them)

I've found GP4000 to be better in terms of longevity, GP5000 to be a bit quicker. However GP4000's are getting a bit difficult to find.

Rather than wheels I'd suggest looking at the luggage you're carrying; what tools and can they be lighter / consolidated? Between PBP and LEL I looked at every item carried, changed where I could and saved about 400g. The bike fully loaded (bike / kit / lights / spares / etc.) is still around 18kg as a result but good enough for long-distance events.

As for wheels I used Superstar Components 30mm wheels for LEL which were about 1550g, but 20/24 spoked.