Changing cycling rules of the road

[Profpointy]

You do get how kinetic energy transfer works, right?

did you miss the "if" in the post you are quoting ?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

did you miss the "if" in the post you are quoting ?

in the same way as the "riding slowly" was missed in mine you mean?

 

[Aravis]

For me, No 4 is the most interesting.

If I can generalise slightly, when I know I'm going to be stopped by a red light all that really matters is that I get through the next time it turns green. Whether I get to the front of the queue beforehand is unimportant. Another consideration is finding a suitable bit of kerb or raised verge, meaning that I can wait comfortably and re-start in as straight a line as possible.

When approaching a red light, if there are a few cars already waiting, frequently I pull in behind them even though I could easily pass. At temporary traffic light in the countryside where there is unlikely to be a kerb or pavement I may even wait a few car lengths behind the last vehicle if I see a good waiting spot. And when the lights change I may wave through any cars that have pulled up after me before I get up to full speed.

The other side of the coin is that at some junctions the only available kerb is beyond the stop line, in which case I would make no apology for passing all the waiting vehicles and stopping there.

 

[summerdays]

For me, No 4 is the most interesting.

If I can generalise slightly, when I know I'm going to be stopped by a red light all that really matters is that I get through the next time it turns green. Whether I get to the front of the queue beforehand is unimportant. Another consideration is finding a suitable bit of kerb or raised verge, meaning that I can wait comfortably and re-start in as straight a line as possible.

When approaching a red light, if there are a few cars already waiting, frequently I pull in behind them even though I could easily pass. At temporary traffic light in the countryside where there is unlikely to be a kerb or pavement I may even wait a few car lengths behind the last vehicle if I see a good waiting spot. And when the lights change I may wave through any cars that have pulled up after me before I get up to full speed.

The other side of the coin is that at some junctions the only available kerb is beyond the stop line, in which case I would make no apology for passing all the waiting vehicles and stopping there.

Waiting by the kerb means that you leave yourself at risk of being left hooked, I just put my foot down on the road or if not going to be too long do a mini track stand, but from a safer position away from the kerb.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

You do get how kinetic energy transfer works, right?

You do get how to read a statement properly, right?

Without changing any of the circumstances - explain to me how a car on an empty road poses more threat than a cyclist on a pavement with lots of pedestrians on it.

 

[Aravis]

Waiting by the kerb means that you leave yourself at risk of being left hooked, I just put my foot down on the road or if not going to be too long do a mini track stand, but from a safer position away from the kerb.

If you like to do track stands I don't think we occupy the same part of the cycling spectrum!

I've been using my approach since student days over 35 years ago with no problems that I can recall. Awareness of what is happening around you is paramount whatever your riding style, and I have always found that starting from what is already a balanced, seated riding position means I am giving maximum attention to whatever else is happening. I must be doing something that minimizes the risk you mention.

I'm sure that in reality, when faced with any particular road layout we all make a vast number of assessments without realising it, and act accordingly. That is experience.

 

[summerdays]

If you like to do track stands I don't think we occupy the same part of the cycling spectrum!

I've been using my approach since student days over 35 years ago with no problems that I can recall. Awareness of what is happening around you is paramount whatever your riding style, and I have always found that starting from what is already a balanced, seated riding position means I am giving maximum attention to whatever else is happening. I must be doing something that minimizes the risk you mention.

I'm sure that in reality, when faced with any particular road layout we all make a vast number of assessments without realising it, and act accordingly. That is experience.

I can't track stand or long but sometimes it saves me putting a foot down.

 

[mjr]

I can't track stand but I can use the back brake to move very very slowly and avoid putting feet down. I wouldn't stop at the kerb and the cycling proficiency courses that did were wrong to tell people to do so.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

You do get how to read a statement properly, right?

Without changing any of the circumstances - explain to me how a car on an empty road poses more threat than a cyclist on a pavement with lots of pedestrians on it.

More kinetic energy. As a result of the speed and mass involved.

A slowly ridden bike has no more kinetic energy than a heavy pedestrian walking at the same speed.

 

[boydj]

If you like to do track stands I don't think we occupy the same part of the cycling spectrum!

I've been using my approach since student days over 35 years ago with no problems that I can recall. Awareness of what is happening around you is paramount whatever your riding style, and I have always found that starting from what is already a balanced, seated riding position means I am giving maximum attention to whatever else is happening. I must be doing something that minimizes the risk you mention.

I'm sure that in reality, when faced with any particular road layout we all make a vast number of assessments without realising it, and act accordingly. That is experience.

1. Cycle training says it is better to stop in the middle of the lane to prevent left hooks and to give you a chance to get some speed up before cars start passing you.
2. You may be starting from a 'balanced seated riding position', but you are still not fully stable until you have some speed on and therefore more vulnerable as cars are overtaking.

 

[mustang1]

I was about to give the OP a like, until I got to rule 11. Arghhhh .....!!

I only added rule 11 because I saw a video a few days ago of this MTB guy going rather slowly, fell and got knocked unconcious. And the hi viz plus lights, well

Surely we are meant to self-enforce.

The rules were introduced on the basis that the vast majority of those subject to them would simply comply as a matter of course.

Yeah but the thing is the rules right now do not permit an Idaho stop and I agree with Idaho stops. I don't see why cyclists can't proceed on a red light. But if we want to get technical, I could approach a red light, do a cx dismount, run across the junction, the cx remount and be on my way. Sure I'd have to practice the unmount dismount, but I think its easily done. That's just an example.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I only added rule 11 because I saw a video a few days ago of this MTB guy going rather slowly, fell and got knocked unconcious. And the hi viz plus lights, well

Yeah but the thing is the rules right now do not permit an Idaho stop and I agree with Idaho stops. I don't see why cyclists can't proceed on a red light. But if we want to get technical, I could approach a red light, do a cx dismount, run across the junction, the cx remount and be on my way. Sure I'd have to practice the unmount dismount, but I think its easily done. That's just an example.

Shared road space only works when the actions of those using it are predictable. Introduce unpredictability and subjective decision making around compliance and the whole system breaks down and people get hurt.

"I don't see why I can't" is a lousy, subjective argument in that context.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Shared road space only works when the actions of those using it are predictable. Introduce unpredictability and subjective decision making around compliance and the whole system breaks down and people get hurt.

"I don't see why I can't" is a lousy, subjective argument in that context.

My cycling instructor said "if we all behave the same drivers will know what to expect from cyclists".
I agree, valid for other cyclists too: if we would all keep to the left on cycle paths, for example, life would be so much easier, instead of guessing.
Another example: sometimes shared paths cross roads, there are pedestrian/bike lights. If the numpty cyclist on the road decides to skip the red, and I'm cycling across, crash!

I've been using my approach since student days over 35 years ago with no problems that I can recall. Awareness of what is happening around you is paramount whatever your riding style, and I have always found that starting from what is already a balanced, seated riding position means I am giving maximum attention to whatever else is happening.

Modern cycle training says we should take primary position (middle of the lane) at junctions, to be clearly seen by all traffic, and avoid being left hocked.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

More kinetic energy. As a result of the speed and mass involved.

A slowly ridden bike has no more kinetic energy than a heavy pedestrian walking at the same speed.

Read my posts back nice and slow...

 

[Aravis]

My cycling instructor said "if we all behave the same drivers will know what to expect from cyclists".

Modern cycle training says we should take primary position (middle of the lane) at junctions, to be clearly seen by all traffic, and avoid being left hocked.

The argument was about traffic lights, not junctions. My comments had particular emphasis on temporary traffic lights on the open road where you can be halted for some time. Most of my riding takes place over several hours and saving the odd second at traffic lights is not a consideration, but conserving energy by keeping comfortable when halted definitely is. Yes, that means I am effectively merging with the main flow when restarting, something we all have to be able to do safely. It seems like a good trade to me.

Your cycling instructor's comment sounds like a remote ideal rather than something he thinks ought actually to happen. The population of cyclists is extremely diverse.