Changing cycling rules of the road

[GrumpyGregry]

How is that relevant?

People who ride bikes are just road users like any other road users.
On their bikes they represent a tiny tiny threat to other road users.
The splendid @Drago was calling for all cyclists to obey the current rules and for them to be enforced with no call for the same to apply for those who represent the greater threat.

 

[benb]

I had the pleasure of cycling in Paris earlier this year.
Nearly every junction lets cyclists turn right on red (so equivalent of left on red here) and also you can go straight on on red at a junction if there is just a single road joining from the left.

It works really well, and they introduced it on a specific date with plenty of notice to allow people to get used to the idea.

So it can work, so I don't see why it wouldn't work here.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I had the pleasure of cycling in Paris earlier this year.
.
.
.
So it can work, so I don't see why it wouldn't work here.

Because in Paris people who ride bikes are respected and the city had stunningly low KSI figures before the change?

 

[benb]

Because in Paris people who ride bikes are respected and the city had stunningly low KSI figures before the change?

I don't see how KSI figures have any bearing on allowing cyclists to treat reds as give way. It would be the cyclists making the assessment as to whether it was safe to proceed.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I don't see how KSI figures have any bearing on allowing cyclists to treat reds as give way. It would be the cyclists making the assessment as to whether it was safe to proceed.

suggests, to me, and I may be wrong, that Paris was already a safer environment in which to cycle that, say, London was/is.

 

[Markymark]

I saw very few cyclists in central Paris conpared to Central london.

 

[glenn forger]

I think the KSI rate for Paris is comparable when you look at per mile traveled. The boast that Paris had no cyclist fatalities was based on a very small area.

 

[steveindenmark]

"That time has to come from some activity. Do I have a smaller breakfast? Do I sleep less? Do I have less time for leisure? Do I work less? What would you not do if your commute was 10% longer and is it right that cyclists should have to make that unnecessary choice?"

My commute is 20kms and I start work at 6am. That means if I cycle, which is most of the time, I get up at 4.30am. If they moved work another 10km away I would take the car or the motorbike. But thats life. Its not just cyclists that have to make those decisions, the car drivers have to as well. You fit cycling in when you can.

 

[jonny jeez]

No, that wasn't the point being made. Drago was suggesting that cyclists don't deserve any beneficial rule changes because, as a group, we don't behave. Greg was pointing out that other groups don't behave.

sure...so what is his point?

other groups dont behave, ...ok...so what?

 

[jonny jeez]

People who ride bikes are just road users like any other road users.
.

Ok

On their bikes they represent a tiny tiny threat to other road users.
.

Fair enough, not sure where this is relevant but Ok.

The splendid @Drago was calling for all cyclists to obey the current rules and for them to be enforced with no call for the same to apply for those who represent the greater threat.

Why should there be?

 

[steveindenmark]

I saw very few cyclists in central Paris conpared to Central london.

I was watching Chris Boardman on Danish TV yesterday. He was riding round Copenhagen and said " I have ridden round Copenhagen all morning and have not seen any lycra. Not a single cyclist. Just thousands of people going to work by bike".

I thought it was a pretty good observation.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I was watching Chris Boardman on Danish TV yesterday. He was riding round Copenhagen and said " I have ridden round Copenhagen all morning and have not seen any lycra. Not a single cyclist. Just thousands of people going to work by bike".

I thought it was a pretty good observation.

and only a tiny bit disingenuous. I saw, in decreasing order of rarity, space lemon, lycra and helmets every day.

 

[Markymark]

I was watching Chris Boardman on Danish TV yesterday. He was riding round Copenhagen and said " I have ridden round Copenhagen all morning and have not seen any lycra. Not a single cyclist. Just thousands of people going to work by bike".

I thought it was a pretty good observation.

I hardly saw anyone on a bike in Paris.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Ok

Fair enough, not sure where this is relevant but Ok.

Why should there be?

Why, as in "on what justification", should people who ride bikes be singled out, or held to higher standards of behaviour, and, in particular, enforcement and sanction than other people who use the roads? Especially those other road users who represent significantly greater risks?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I hardly saw anyone on a bike in Paris.

3% modal share. They all walk or take the metro.