(Clearly Un)Notable Wheel Differences

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bpsmith

Veteran
Bullshitting myself by suggesting that each wheelset has different characteristics? There's no gain. I have both, I am not buying anything else and I am not trying to convince anyone else anything. Was just asking for other peoples opinions based on their experiences.

You've stated yours, based on statistics that you found online. No point asking for real world experience, as you never give that or perhaps don't have any.

I haven't put a question mark at the end, as it's a statement and not a question, hence no answer required.
 
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winjim

Straddle the line, discord and rhyme
Not at all. Sometimes it's not possible to quantify the way something feels, but to continually be told you're feelings are totally wrong if you can't back it up with random statistics is a touch condescending.
I don't think your feelings are wrong. I'm just skeptical about what exactly it is that is causing you to experience those feelings.
Every time a thread like this appears or one that begins something like "I'm looking to upgrade the stock wheels on my bike ..." you know where it's heading.
Well yes, and you'd think that somebody who claims to have taken a break from the forum for that very reason would maybe not choose to bring the subject up again.

FWIW I am genuinely interested in all this from both an engineering and a psychology/placebo/bullshit/whatever POV.
 
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bpsmith

Veteran
I asked the question, hoping that there would be some honest real world opinions on here now @winjim, rather than solely theoretical stuff. There are some of those above, in fairness, so thank you to those who posted.

Edit: I respect a difference of opinion, but not being called a Bullshitter because my perception of different products is what it is.

What @Yellow Saddle doesn't tell you is that he has a real problem with online retailers, where a lot of us shop, so that could well explain the continual rubbishing of any sort of wheel purchase that gets mentioned. Ironic for a wheel builder, or to be expected when it's not their pocket that the cash goes in?
 
Location
Loch side.
What @Yellow Saddle doesn't tell you is that he has a real problem with online retailers, where a lot of us shop, so that could well explain the continual rubbishing of any sort of wheel purchase that gets mentioned. Ironic for a wheel builder, or to be expected when it's not their pocket that the cash goes in?

You just made that up, didn't you? Another one of your fantasies.
 
Location
Loch side.
Bullshitting myself by suggesting that each wheelset has different characteristics? There's no gain. I have both, I am not buying anything else and I am not trying to convince anyone else anything. Was just asking for other peoples opinions based on their experiences.

You've stated yours, based on statistics that you found online. No point asking for real world experience, as you never give that or perhaps don't have any.

I haven't put a question mark at the end, as it's a statement and not a question, hence no answer required.

As requested before. Please point out these offensive statistics you harp on about.
 

S-Express

Guest
What @Yellow Saddle doesn't tell you is that he has a real problem with online retailers, where a lot of us shop, so that could well explain the continual rubbishing of any sort of wheel purchase that gets mentioned. Ironic for a wheel builder, or to be expected when it's not their pocket that the cash goes in?

As far as conspiracy theories go, that's a pretty desperate one. The notion that YS is deliberately trolling 'wheel threads' in order to promote sales of handbuilts - pure genius :laugh:

I blame a shady, 'deep state' group called 'the wheelbuilders' star chamber'. YS will obviously deny he is a member, but we all know different.. ;)
 
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bpsmith

Veteran
The "yourself" is redundant.
Your answer is still non existent. Are you going to answer or continue to deflect?
 

Cuchilo

Prize winning member X2
Location
London
All of my hand builts flex to the point of brake rub if i am sprinting but then i bought them for time trialing so its not a massive issue and probably me sprinting the wrong way . My Giant P-slr1's dont flex but i bet i could get brake rub if i tried ( not that i will try )
As for riding on a rail i guess thats down to the trust you have in the tyres . I know what tyres i like and know how far i can push them without going down . I could probably go even further with them on corners but my bottom limits the extremes the tyre will take .
 

reacher

Senior Member
I had a break from this forum, due to a few plonkers, who know better. A year or so later, same plonkers.

Apologies for wasting your time and mine. :notworthy:

Your not wasting their time, these people live for these threads, you can't win the arguments with them they just twist and dissect every post until it comes out as they want, no matter how you try to put it across. I suspect these main culprits are under differant names on another forum as well. Basically these guys are the know all knobs you would avoid like a kick in the undercarriage if you met them in real life.
 

Dan B

Disengaged member
I have four bottles of London Pride and four bottles of Old Speckled Hen. The comparison is interesting: sometimes when I count the Pride bottles I get to 3 and occasionally when I count the Hen bottles I get five, so my opinion is that the Hen is better value for money and goes further. This is my opinion based on my actual experience therefore it is valid, and your theoretical arguments about "maths" or "science" are just stuff you've found on the internet.
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
Campag Zonda's and Fulcrum Quattro LG's. . . . able to compare fairly
The Zonda's were Quicker off the mark and when accelerating, and faster on the climbs, but could not retain the same top end speed as the Quattro's do. They are also a lot stiffer, so feel the umps, but corner like on rails.

Reviews online (pasted/edited below) - summary: The Zondas are lighter - they "punch into acceleration and maintain momentum on steep climbs" ^_^. The Quattros are heavier so once up to speed will 'roll well' (angular momentum? aka 'achieve greater top end speed'). What would be interesting would be @bpsmith riding out with a power meter and doing some hill climb comparisons (keeping his power the same) and also getting on a decent flat road and, ideally the same evening/on the same ride, doing a few 5km keeping power metric the same on each wheelset, and see if the Quattros are faster. The issue of how wheels 'feel' is analagous to the idea that riding on 23s is faster because you get a 'firmer' ride: and a firmer ride is a faster ride, no?
Campagnolo Zondas
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/...ets/product/review-campagnolo-zonda-14-48295/
Campagnolo’s light (under 1600g) and super-tight Zondas are great if you rate speed over comfort. Though not toeing the ‘fatter is better’ line, the rim isn’t super-thin so won’t unduly pinch fatter tyres. The front rim is slightly shallower than the rear, for more responsive, windproof steering. The Mega G3 lacing clumps the bladed spokes together in two driveside/single offside batches, and it’s not just cosmetic – the rear wheel is seriously stiff with great power transfer. The Zondas put punch into acceleration and maintain momentum on steep climbs, though the ride is on the firm side. The bearings are smooth and the bombproof steel freehub is available in Campag and Shimano/SRAM formats.

Fulcrum's new Racing Quattro wheels
The Quattros most noticeable feature is the 35mm deep aero aluminium rim which with the oversized flange on the rear driveside hub keeps the spokes short - resulting in a strong wheelset. Their 1,787g weight (a little higher than the claimed 1,710g) isn't particularly light weight . . The rim is stiffer radially than a traditional shallow box section rim which means less spokes can be used to build them up. There's 16 stainless straight pull steel bladed spokes up front and 21 in the rear wheel. They're held in place at the rims with smart red nipples [NB aluminium] and laced radially at the front and use the company's '2:1 Two-to-One' lacing pattern in the rear wheel. With two spokes on the drive side for every one spoke on the non-drive side, the tension in the spokes can be higher and evenly distributed.

One downside of all that radial stiffness is that on some of the rough roads of my test circuit they made for an occasionally harsh ride. They're fine on anything smooth but along a road where the top layer of Tarmac is breaking away, they can be a touch jarring. They're impressively strong though... I've battered a few potholes on night time training rides and they show no signs of dents or dings, nor have they deviated from true. Slinging the bike around reveals that while acceleration is limited due to their weight, that once up to speed they roll along with good pace. They're nicely responsive when weaving the bike through fast corners and feel solid under heavy sprinting and sudden change of directions don't faze them either. So, a very tough and strong wheelset with reasonable aero speed, they look good with smart decals and they're very durable with the bearings still running smooth. For the money, we're prepared to overlook the occasionally harsh ride and enjoy their fast ride performance.
 
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