Close Pass

[jonny jeez]

He did have the choice, but he didn't take it because the cyclist gave him the chance.
One cannot assume that under any circumstances a driver will hold back.

+1

 

[stowie]

Complete misjudgement by the lorry driver really. Certainly cycling in primary through the gap would help prevent idiocy (although it only reduces the chances - the driver might simply have pushed through anyway, which has happened to me on rare occasions).

As for whose fault it is - well the vehicle is not only overtaking, therefore with a higher duty of care, it is also the larger, faster one with an operator that should have a higher duty of care (and training). Many cyclists aren't assertive enough to effectively control heavy traffic behind them, and I for one don't think that a pre-requesite of cycling should be having to control other drivers' actions. They should do that themselves.

If, in a car, I see a gap to overtake a vehicle in front, but misjudge and end up hitting something or cutting up other vehicles, I wouldn't think it was the fault of the vehicle I was overtaking for not positioning itself to prevent me doing something stupid. The fact that, as cyclists, we expect to have to control other road users in this way is a reason for many people not bothering to cycle in the first place.

 

[ianrauk]

As for whose fault it is - well the vehicle is not only overtaking, therefore with a higher duty of care, it is also the larger, faster one with an operator that should have a higher duty of care (and training). Many cyclists aren't assertive enough to effectively control heavy traffic behind them, and I for one don't think that a pre-requesite of cycling should be having to control other drivers' actions. They should do that themselves.

You are kidding right?
Of course they should do it themselves, but they don't do they?
Hence the video above
A cycist HAS to control the traffic around them themselves.

I guarantee that what happened in that vid never happens to me, why? because I take control of the situation. I don't leave it to the car driver that's for sure.

 

[stowie]

You have to make some assumptions surely? Otherwise you would be getting off the cycle and pushing each time a car was in sight.

For instance, by taking primary through the gap, you would assume the driver would slow and wait behind, as opposed to blunder through regardless.

I don't think it unreasonable to expect someone operating a vehicle to take care overtaking a cyclist - no matter where they are positioned. Unfortunately, this level of competence seems to elude some drivers, so it is fair to try to mitigate their inability to drive safely. Doesn't mean you are responsible for their general stupidity though.

 

[ianrauk]

Of course you have to make some assumptions, but when it comes to car drivers I take the assumption that they will try to kill me. That is why I will always control the situation that I happen to be in at the time. I need to as my commute is longer then average and on some very busy roads.

I also don't think it unreasonable either but experience tells me otherwise.

 

[stowie]

You are kidding right?
Of course they should do it themselves, but they don't do they?
Hence the video above
A cycist HAS to control the traffic around themselves.

I guarantee that what happened in that vid never happens to me, why? because I take control of the situation. I don't leave it to the car driver that's for sure.

I agree a cyclist has to do so, but it isn't their responsibility to make people drive well, and doesn't make it the cyclists fault (certainly in law) if the driver doesn't drive correctly.

And I think if we assume that taking primary etc. will stop these incidents we are deluding ourselves. It just reduces the chances of it happening. I take primary and am reasonably assertive, yet still have been put into difficult situations simply because the driver behind has decided I am impeding him and will push through regardless. If we are going to blame someone other than driver for the incident, how about apportioning some blame to the road layout which can put cyclists in poor situations even if they are adept at vehicular cycling.

 

[ianrauk]

I agree a cyclist has to do so, but it isn't their responsibility to make people drive well, and doesn't make it the cyclists fault (certainly in law) if the driver doesn't drive correctly.

And I think if we assume that taking primary etc. will stop these incidents we are deluding ourselves. It just reduces the chances of it happening. I take primary and am reasonably assertive, yet still have been put into difficult situations simply because the driver behind has decided I am impeding him and will push through regardless. If we are going to blame someone other than driver for the incident, how about apportioning some blame to the road layout which can put cyclists in poor situations even if they are adept at vehicular cycling.

I fully agree with what you are saying Stowie, however it's isn't a cyclists responsibility, but as you know, a lot of car drivers out there have very little regard for the law, the highway code, cyclists or what is right and what is wrong.

I am not assuming that taking primary will stop an overtake, but it will make a driver think about a pinch point overtake rather then taking a chance if someone is nearer to the side. (and if you were in primary there is no way they can get past anyhow, unless they rear end you)

And yes, road layout has a lot to do with it.

 

[goody]

[QUOTE 1669167, member: 3143"]How?[/quote]
Something similar to this?

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-8CWL3bpJc&list=UURoxFrDZq9TNltHfSiEnpzg&index=7&feature=plcp

 

[ianrauk]

that's ^ not a pinch point.
He took a wild overtake.

 

[goody]

Maybe not a pinch point but obviously not a safe place to overtake a cyclist but he did it anyway.

 

[goody]

[QUOTE 1669185, member: 3143"]Sorry, but there is no traffic island which is what I was getting.

However good position, plenty of space by the n/s to ride into. If you were closer to kerb it could have been a bit hairy with the driver, blind summit and narrow road but you was not. Good, well done.[/quote]
Not my video by the way.

 

[400bhp]

I fully agree with what you are saying Stowie, however it's isn't a cyclists responsibility, but as you know, a lot of car drivers out there have very little regard for the law, the highway code, cyclists or what is right and what is wrong.

I am not assuming that taking primary will stop an overtake, but it will make a driver think about a pinch point overtake rather then taking a chance if someone is nearer to the side. (and if you were in primary there is no way they can get past anyhow, unless they rear end you)

And yes, road layout has a lot to do with it.

I guess your point is that when you are dead you are dead. It wouldn't have mattered if you had hugged the gutter or took primary, so you might as well take primary?

 

[Origamist]

Taking primary through pinch points is good practice, but it can only influence other road users' behaviour. It may make an attempted overtake and squeeze (or worse) less likely, but obversely, it means driver impatience can manifest itself in other unpleasant ways i.e beeping, tailgating before the pinchpoint, passing too closely afer the pinchpoint etc. Changng the dynamic of the situation by taking an assertive position is not a win/win when dealing with pinchpoints. If traffic is not heavy, sometimes the path of least resistance is to back-off before the pinchpoint and then you do not have to take a strong, blocking position on the approach. It also shows other following motorists that you are prepared to defer and facilitate the progress of faster moving vehicles and, if you do need to move into primary postion further down the road, they are more inclined, in my experience (particularly if you thank them with a wave/nod/smile), to treat you more considerately.

 

[gaz]

If traffic is not heavy, sometimes the path of least resistance is to back-off before the pinchpoint and then you do not have to take a strong, blocking position on the approach. It also shows other following motorists that you are prepared to defer and facilitate the progress of faster moving vehicles and, if you do need to move into primary postion further down the road, they are more inclined, in my experience (particularly if you thank them with a wave/nod/smile), to treat you more considerately.

I do that when going up Bedford Hill, Balham (traveling south east).
It's easier than controlling the lane for every traffic island (about 7 along a short stretch).

 

[goody]

[QUOTE 1669191, member: 3143"]..and becasue of the cyclists position the car driver had to take a wide line at a reduced speed. This is know as a ''controlled pass.''[/quote]
The driver didn't have to do anything, he could have waited till his view ahead improved then carried out his overtake. Controlled pass? lack of control might be more appropriate.