Coach me onto a 400

[Heltor Chasca]

I surprised myself recently by really enjoying Mark Rigby’s ‘A Rough Diamond’ 300. I believe it is one of the easier 300s for us newbies.

I now want to up my game to a 400. I only had about another 80km on the clock to go to bring this ride up to 400. I was planning something next year, but ambitions have got me thinking I might give it a crack late summer, early autumn. I live in the South West (Bristol/Bath region)

With Mark’s permission I could DIY his route from my doorstep to bring it to just above 400km. The first and last bit would be quite flat along the Bristol/Bath Railway path. I am very happy on DIYs. But would you recommend doing a calendar event instead?

Also I am not sure if I would ride straight through the night or catch a few Zeds after midnight assuming I would start at 0600 or earlier. Full sleep system (mat, bivi bag & pillow) or just a bivi bag on the ground? I have done two complete night rides of about 150km.

What extra kit over and above the usual for a 200-300 would you advise?

I am taking any advice seriously after hearing one of the gnarly, experienced riders I know say something like, ‘300s are the best distance as you can enjoy a full day out. 400s are a huge step up as you are starting to dabble with sleep deprivation.’

Thanks for your wisdom as usual.

 

[raleighnut]

You'd be easier starting at night, get some miles in whilst it's quiet.

 

[Pro Tour Punditry]

A 600 would be "easier" in that you'd get some proper kip

 

[Ajax Bay]

I now want to up my game to a 400. . . . I was planning something next year, but ambitions have got me thinking I might give it a crack late summer, early autumn. I live in the South West (Bristol/Bath region)
I could DIY . . . But would you recommend doing a calendar event instead?

Also I am not sure if I would ride straight through the night or catch a few Zeds after midnight assuming I would start at 0600 or earlier. Full sleep system (mat, bivi bag & pillow) or just a bivi bag on the ground? I have done two complete night rides of about 150km.

What extra kit over and above the usual for a 200-300 would you advise?.

There are no English 400k calendar events this year so it needs to be a Perm or DIY.
A 0600 start implies a 0958 latest finish (DIY/Perm). You've done Mark's Rough Diamond in 18 hours (say) so you can plan on averaging 16kph during the second morning.
0600-2330 for 300. Sleep (and if you choose a night which is forecast to be warm, then a mat and bivvibag should be enough, if you can't plan a route which hits 300+ near an understanding friend/relative). 4 hours till pre-dawn (0330 say). Finish off (@16kph/10mph average) the final 100k in 6 and a bit hours. Sorted.
Some people find they need to do more than 300k to make sure they're well and truly tired and will sleep. Typically 600s (eg Kernow and SW, BCM, Wander Wye) are designed to do 350-380k to the sleep stop and riders can get sleep and, if they want, leave 'out of time' which can be clawed back on the second day. As PTP says, counter-intuitively you may find a 600 'easier' - certainly that's been my experience. There are lots of calendar 600s from which to choose.
I'd plan my feeding stops with care, including an 'early morning' one. This may influence route choice.
As for 'extra kit' @Dogtrousers thread you've read has three good kit lists. Really depends if you plan to ride though or try to sleep somewhere (and in what style).

 

[Heltor Chasca]

You'd be easier starting at night, get some miles in whilst it's quiet.

I see your logic in this. Having listened to some thoughts bandied around by some PBP riders I would be worried about messing with my natural body clock. Some who had done the ride more than once, found the late night start tough despite having a longer time limit. When they took the early morning slot, they found the ride easier despite less time for the event.

That said. I didn’t feel too rough on a couple of night rides I did starting at 22:00 so I may seriously consider your suggestion.

 

[Heltor Chasca]

A 600 would be "easier" in that you'd get some proper kip

Thanks. I like this. How would you recommend splitting the ride. 350/250?

 

[Heltor Chasca]

There are no English 400k calendar events this year so it needs to be a Perm or DIY.
A 0600 start implies a 0958 latest finish (DIY/Perm). You've done Mark's Rough Diamond in 18 hours (say) so you can plan on averaging 16kph during the second morning.
0600-2330 for 300. Sleep (and if you choose a night which is forecast to be warm, then a mat and bivvibag should be enough, if you can't plan a route which hits 300+ near an understanding friend/relative). 4 hours till pre-dawn (0330 say). Finish off (@16kph/10mph average) the final 100k in 6 and a bit hours. Sorted.
Some people find they need to do more than 300k to make sure they're well and truly tired and will sleep. Typically 600s (eg Kernow and SW, BCM, Wander Wye) are designed to do 350-380k to the sleep stop and riders can get sleep and, if they want, leave 'out of time' which can be clawed back on the second day. As PTP says, counter-intuitively you may find a 600 'easier' - certainly that's been my experience. There are lots of calendar 600s from which to choose.
I'd plan my feeding stops with care, including an 'early morning' one. This may influence route choice.
As for 'extra kit' @Dogtrousers thread you've read has three good kit lists. Really depends if you plan to ride though or try to sleep somewhere (and in what style).

Thank you. This is really insightful. I think I finished Mark's 300 in about 16 hours, but I believe it is a quick route. I am a plodder. I guess ramping things up to a 600 is easier time wise, but it’s whether or not I have the fuel/strength in my legs for that distance. That would be my worry.

 

[Ajax Bay]

How would you recommend splitting the ride. 350/250?

I've split 600s a variety of ways: eg 375-236, 350-250, 290-320, 310-300.
For a DIY the split would, for me, be driven by where I planned my sleep stop and what time I needed to arrive (YH/friend) and then work back to a start time. You do need to be properly tired and also consider eating (eg fish and chips or whatever) an hour or so before arriving at sleep stop (reduces faffing and body can sleep rather than digest (early stage stomach part)).
Considering a Perm 600 shortly (Exeter) and your request for advice has helped my planning for that - thank you.

 

[Spartak]

Avalon Sunrise...?

Used to start at 22:00 ish on a Friday night from somewhere on the Somerset/Devon border.

Great ride....

 

[Ajax Bay]

Avalon Sunrise...?

Missed it this year, I'm afraid. Normally the weekend closest to the summer solstice, starting from the Half Moon pub, Clayhidon, on the southern slopes of the Blackdown Hills. http://www.ukcyclist.co.uk/avalon
https://audaxing.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/the-first-avalon-sunrise/
I expect the organiser, on request, would be content for you to DIY it (starting it where it comes closer to you: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/27858392 )

 

[Heltor Chasca]

Missed it this year, I'm afraid. Normally the weekend closest to the summer solstice, starting from the Half Moon pub, Clayhidon, on the southern slopes of the Blackdown Hills. http://www.ukcyclist.co.uk/avalon
https://audaxing.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/the-first-avalon-sunrise/
I expect the organiser, on request, would be content for you to DIY it (starting it where it comes closer to you: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/27858392 )

That is a fantastic route. I think that is a keeper. Thank you very much. I’ll find out the organiser details and ask when I am ready to ride.

 

[Ajax Bay]

If you haven't read Marcus's pieces you ought to:
http://www.marcusjb.com/
Lots of good advice and sound ideas in consumable packages.

 

[Heltor Chasca]

If you haven't read Marcus's pieces you ought to:
http://www.marcusjb.com/
Lots of good advice and sound ideas in consumable packages.

Thanks Coach This is great.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

You did the 300 in 16 hours. If you repeated that on a 400, you could have 4 hours sleep, then spend 7 hours doing the last 100km. So do not beliebe you cannot sleep on a 400. It is just that most of us choose not to. Usually as when we get sleepy we are less than 100km from the finish and choose to keep riding.

In terms of extra gear, arm and leg warmers, plus a lightweight gilet for night time. Throw in a head torch in case of mechanicals when dark. You do not need any extra above that. If sleepy then church lynch gates or porches, barns, outbuildings, bus shelters, forest floors, fields will do the job. 24 hour services as well if near enough route.

 

[Ian H]

I admit to being surprised at how quickly I finished my Back to the Smoke 400, starting at noon. I was expecting a slow-down for several hours around dawn, but 20mins snooze on a bench sorted any tiredness. A good night's sleep and a lie-in beforehand must have helped.