Confrontation with a motorist: I did nothing wrong this time

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lejogger

Guru
Location
Wirral
Interestingly enough, on Wednesday night I was cycling home thinking about this thread and witnessed two motorists cut corners in the space of less than a mile.
On a main road, both drivers travelling towards me, both indicating right and both performing dangerous manouvres cutting in front of me down side roads because they didn't want to wait for me to clear the junction.
The second could have been horriffic. He didn't so much cut the corner as simply took the corner at speed in completely the wrong lane with a totally blind view of what was approaching... which was another car. He had to swerve wildly to the left to get past. It's a good job the approaching car was slowing for the junction as they both would have been toast. All because he didn't want to wait an extra 3-4 seconds for me to get past.
The point is that we can all get a bit lazy or casual with our driving or riding technique, and even in this example which was far worse than what Matthew witnessed there was no real harm done to anyone... but the whole point of the white lines is to control the safety of your road position and if you don't adhere to the laws of the road, you're always going to be held liable for any consequences, whether you think you have a clear line of sight or not. If a pedestrian had run out into the road beyond the junction, completely unpredictably, evidence that showed a cut corner would always implicate the driver even if taking the corner properly would have yielded the same consequence.

A cut corner is an indication of attitude. A motorist or cyclist who cuts the corner of a junction clearly doesn't have the correct thought process in their head. They're not approaching with making a safe legal manouvre in mind, or with concerns of other road users or pedestrians. They're purely thinking of themselves, and how they can get through the junction as easily as they can with regards to not losing speed or turning too sharply. It's not the worst crime in the world, and for the most part there won't be any consequences. We all take risks, it's part of human nature, but that doesn't make it right or excusable. There's no defence for any of the actions of the motorist in Matthew's clip.We can all agree that the initial offence didn't make much of a mark on the seriousness scale in which case Matthew's actions can be likened to a nit-picking busy body. It's like shouting for a penalty in a game of football when you see a bit of pushing or shirt pulling. It happens all the time, everyone does it to everyone else so why should you complain about it? Well because it's against the rules. If Matthew wants to take offence at somebody doing something wrong that's entirely his prerogative regardless of how serious the offence. He also as we've previously discussed didn't remotely do enough to warrant the over-reaction by the motorist.

As I've already said, I've been critical of Matthew's riding in the past, and he clearly (like a lot of us) still has a lot to learn, but on this occasion I'll back him to the hilt.
 

Peowpeowpeowlasers

Well-Known Member
He would have seen them though as he traversed across the front of Matt as he approached and then entered the road. He would have made a course correction if that had been the case IMO

What, like this guy?



The driver in Matthew's clip didn't cut the corner because it was safe to do so, he cut the corner because he couldn't be bothered to wait for the Ford Galaxy to pass. In other words, he was rushing and motorists in a rush invariably make presumptions based on a lack of information - ie, the presumption that there's nothing coming the other way. There's a metal fence on the corner and 6 feet or so of cyclist, he isn't Superman, is he?

There's absolutely nothing to indicate that the motorist was driving safely. Had he been on a driving test, he'd have failed. A bored traffic officer coming up the side road would have pulled him and had a word.
 

benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
If there was a cyclist to Matt`s right and slightly behind - he would have been on the pavement! If you meant further down that side road, why not say that? If you are cycling and I am making a big assumption here that you do ride a bike, have you ever made a course correction when you have spotted, almost too late, a pothole, twig, plastic bag, etc? Look carefully again at the video and the car''s passenger door mirror, can you see the reflection of an alien with his phaser on stun?

His right. As in, coming up to the junction in a position to turn right.
 

PK99

Legendary Member
Location
SW19
As I've already said, I've been critical of Matthew's riding in the past, and he clearly (like a lot of us) still has a lot to learn, but on this occasion I'll back him to the hilt.

there was nothing wrong with his riding, but please, for his own safety, do not encourage him to continue making gobby snide comments to other road users - sooner or later he will come up against a real thug.
 

Linford

Guest
Interestingly enough, on Wednesday night I was cycling home thinking about this thread and witnessed two motorists cut corners in the space of less than a mile.
On a main road, both drivers travelling towards me, both indicating right and both performing dangerous manouvres cutting in front of me down side roads because they didn't want to wait for me to clear the junction.
The second could have been horriffic. He didn't so much cut the corner as simply took the corner at speed in completely the wrong lane with a totally blind view of what was approaching... which was another car. He had to swerve wildly to the left to get past. It's a good job the approaching car was slowing for the junction as they both would have been toast. All because he didn't want to wait an extra 3-4 seconds for me to get past.
The point is that we can all get a bit lazy or casual with our driving or riding technique, and even in this example which was far worse than what Matthew witnessed there was no real harm done to anyone... but the whole point of the white lines is to control the safety of your road position and if you don't adhere to the laws of the road, you're always going to be held liable for any consequences, whether you think you have a clear line of sight or not. If a pedestrian had run out into the road beyond the junction, completely unpredictably, evidence that showed a cut corner would always implicate the driver even if taking the corner properly would have yielded the same consequence.

A cut corner is an indication of attitude. A motorist or cyclist who cuts the corner of a junction clearly doesn't have the correct thought process in their head. They're not approaching with making a safe legal manouvre in mind, or with concerns of other road users or pedestrians. They're purely thinking of themselves, and how they can get through the junction as easily as they can with regards to not losing speed or turning too sharply. It's not the worst crime in the world, and for the most part there won't be any consequences. We all take risks, it's part of human nature, but that doesn't make it right or excusable. There's no defence for any of the actions of the motorist in Matthew's clip.We can all agree that the initial offence didn't make much of a mark on the seriousness scale in which case Matthew's actions can be likened to a nit-picking busy body. It's like shouting for a penalty in a game of football when you see a bit of pushing or shirt pulling. It happens all the time, everyone does it to everyone else so why should you complain about it? Well because it's against the rules. If Matthew wants to take offence at somebody doing something wrong that's entirely his prerogative regardless of how serious the offence. He also as we've previously discussed didn't remotely do enough to warrant the over-reaction by the motorist.

As I've already said, I've been critical of Matthew's riding in the past, and he clearly (like a lot of us) still has a lot to learn, but on this occasion I'll back him to the hilt.


We can all quote examples though. Yesterday, my OH behind the wheel, a commuter cycclist rides up the inside of us as we are going through a set of lights, get to a next set and turning right, we queue behind 2 cars and wait as traffic is coming the other way, rather than him queueing behind us on a green light, he rides up the LHS of the line, cuts in front ot the lead car, then forces a driver coming the other way to jump on the brakes as he cuts across in front of him to get into the side road. This wasn't a 'well he cut a corner and took a chance, this was he ignored the priority of the rest ofthe traffic, rode into their blind spots, and then forced other vehicles to take emergency action to avoid runing him over. He looked early 40's so old enough to know better.
 

benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
We can all quote examples though. Yesterday, my OH behind the wheel, a commuter cycclist rides up the inside of us as we are going through a set of lights, get to a next set and turning right, we queue behind 2 cars and wait as traffic is coming the other way, rather than him queueing behind us on a green light, he rides up the LHS of the line, cuts in front ot the lead car, then forces a driver coming the other way to jump on the brakes as he cuts across in front of him to get into the side road. This wasn't a 'well he cut a corner and took a chance, this was he ignored the priority of the rest ofthe traffic, rode into their blind spots, and then forced other vehicles to take emergency action to avoid runing him over. He looked early 40's so old enough to know better.

You should have threatened to wrap his bike up his nose! ;)
 

lejogger

Guru
Location
Wirral
there was nothing wrong with his riding, but please, for his own safety, do not encourage him to continue making gobby snide comments to other road users - sooner or later he will come up against a real thug.
I've no intention of encouraging him to be gobby or make snide comments - and I understand your concerns. As I've posted previously in the thread, I most certainly do not believe that his "see ya" comment was helpful in the slightest - i'd like to make that clear, but I also believe that from the moment the motorist decided to stop and engage there was nothing Matthew could have said or done to pacify him any more than he did, and what he did to cause the motorist to stop i.e. a headshake and a mutter, was no different to anything most of us would have done in that situation.
So yes, I completely agree that he needs to help himself a bit more in these situations, but I believe the attitude/condition of the motorist made the entire episode almost impossible to avoid once the initial confrontation took place.
 

Linford

Guest
You should have threatened to wrap his bike up his nose! ;)

The driver who was forced to brake didn't look very happy, but he looked like he had a life and didn't want to waste it moaning about this selfish and arrogant riders actions. If he was on a motorbike with a numberplate, he would not have ridden in thsi way - and then we go back to behaviour modification and risk compensation....
 

lejogger

Guru
Location
Wirral
We can all quote examples though. Yesterday, my OH behind the wheel, a commuter cycclist rides up the inside of us as we are going through a set of lights, get to a next set and turning right, we queue behind 2 cars and wait as traffic is coming the other way, rather than him queueing behind us on a green light, he rides up the LHS of the line, cuts in front ot the lead car, then forces a driver coming the other way to jump on the brakes as he cuts across in front of him to get into the side road. This wasn't a 'well he cut a corner and took a chance, this was he ignored the priority of the rest ofthe traffic, rode into their blind spots, and then forced other vehicles to take emergency action to avoid runing him over. He looked early 40's so old enough to know better.
We can... clearly a poor piece of riding, I'm sure we'd all agree with that.
What we don't seem to all agree on though is the lack of care and consideration shown by anyone who would cut a corner as per Matthew's clip. There's a split on whether it's acceptable or not based on the severity or not of the consequences of the actions. My post was trying to explain why I believe a cut corner always puts you in the wrong - whether serious or not - due to the attitude you must have to perform it.
 

Scoosh

Velocouchiste
Moderator
Location
Edinburgh
<dons Mods Hat>

We've probably reached saturation point now. Further posting is unlikely to add anything to the discussion.

Move along, please !
 
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benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
In the clip was Matt moving? No! His back was to the pavement so anyone behind him would be on the pavement.

I don't understand. I'm talking about another cyclist coming up from behind and to Matt's right, positioned to turn right at the junction.
 
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