Coronavirus outbreak

[mjr]

All with the benefit of hindsight in what was a fast moving situation.

Each of the government policies looked reasonable enough at the time, given the competing interests they had to balance.

They didn't look reasonable to lots of us, especially that first testing denial where they were eventually pressurised by public opinion to U-turn, so I wonder what "competing interests" you mean: Serco? Capita? The former landlord of Matt Hancock's local?

It can't be the economy in general because we know that widespread poor health is bad for the economy.

[...] Good news for those whose main interest is keeping up a barrage of criticism aimed at the government.

To be clear, I am an independent, member of no party, whose main interest is in having as few as possible of me and my friends killed or hospitalised by this virus — which results in criticising this government lately!

(edited to fix mis-edit!)

 

[Ajax Bay]

the government policies looked reasonable enough at the time, given the competing interests they had to balance.

Which is roughly what I was seeking from @Adam4868 when I asked what was meant by 'accountability'. Our government, nationally and regionally, is answerable to the electorate. I hope there are excellent investigations to identify lessons (including for example the effect of how the economic damage has affected life outcomes in the wider society and across the age groups) - and I sincerely hope (nay believe) this process is already in hand. But these analyses are to allow such lessons to be learned, not as a multiple-thonged weapon to beat the system up - which seems to be the unproductive thrust of some comments above.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

All with the benefit of hindsight in what was a fast moving situation.

Each of the government policies looked reasonable enough at the time, given the competing interests they had to balance.

As more millions are vaccinated, the dramatic shifts in infection should slow, which will make planning the next moves easier.

However, there are still possibilities for which it is all but impossible to plan, such as a new variant which behaves in a markedly different way.

Good news for those whose main interest is keeping up a barrage of criticism aimed at the government.

Though I can't remember what happened about point no. 1, concerns about the others were all raised on this thread. With the benefit of clear sight. From previous posts of yours, it appears to be a point of departure for you that all government policies are right.

 

[mjr]

From previous posts of yours, it appears to be a point of departure for you that all government policies are right.

To be fair, it's a point of departure for many, but there is a range of opinion on how far right they are...

 

[Ajax Bay]

Do you mean "how right they are"?

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Each of the government policies looked reasonable enough at the time, given the competing interests they had to balance

No, this really isn't the case.

There was huge push back, even more so for wave 2 when we failed to learn the lessons for wave one

 

[tom73]

.

No, this really isn't the case.

There was huge push back, even more so for wave 2 when we failed to learn the lessons for wave one

Not forgetting the government even did a test run of what would happen. Still failed to planned or stock up on PPE. Oh and for years experts told them that it was not a good idea to sell off the long standing PHE network of labs. Building all for show nightingales hospitals with no hope of staffing them. That’s not a surprise either they’ve been told enough times we don’t have enough staff even when times are good.

 

[fossyant]

1,820 deaths today.

That's exceptionally alarming as the medics know how to deal with it better, so just imagine how bad it could be.

 

[Ajax Bay]

Building all for show nightingales hospitals with no hope of staffing them. That’s not a surprise either they’ve been told enough times we don’t have enough staff even when times are good.

The London Nightingale has plenty of patients therein, transferred from main hospitals, during their recovery process from serious infection, thus freeing beds in the main London hospitals to provide lifesaving care to all those who need it. Believe other Nightingales are stood up and ready to receive (peak in London ahead of elsewhere). Thank goodness the Nightingales were built. Was that a good government decision?

 

[Rocky]

1,820 deaths today.

That's exceptionally alarming as the medics know how to deal with it better, so just imagine how bad it could be.

I've been round the M25 today to take my 88 yr old mother to hospital (for an OP appt). The M25 traffic was as busy as it was before lockdown started in March. I was quite shocked - I really think people aren't taking this seriously.

 

[nickyboy]

I've been round the M25 today to take my 88 yr old mother to hospital (for an OP appt). The M25 traffic was as busy as it was before lockdown started in March. I was quite shocked - I really think people aren't taking this seriously.

It's interesting how our eyes can sometimes deceive us. We are all guilty of this. Here is the TomTom real time congestion information for London. Today's levels are lower than the average for 2020 and much lower than 2019 (which is a reasonable benchmark). Rush hour peaks were typically around 70% (however that is calculated, I think it is something to do with cars/available network capacity) but is running about 30% this week.
London traffic report | TomTom Traffic Index

Not trying to be a smart alec here. But there have been a lot of posts about how busy everywhere, lack of compliance etc etc but the data doesn't support this

Edit to add: It's very interesting if you look at comparable data for other W European capitals. Their congestion levels are very close to 2019 indicating that the reduction in traffic in London (and other UK cities) is not happening there

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

It's interesting how our eyes can sometimes deceive us. We are all guilty of this. Here is the TomTom real time congestion information for London. Today's levels are lower than the average for 2020 and much lower than 2019 (which is a reasonable benchmark). Rush hour peaks were typically around 70% (however that is calculated, I think it is something to do with cars/available network capacity) but is running about 30% this week.
London traffic report | TomTom Traffic Index

Not trying to be a smart alec here. But there have been a lot of posts about how busy everywhere, lack of compliance etc etc but the data doesn't support this

I don't know about the M25 but I had to do a shopping run in SE London for my mother today. It was very quiet on the roads.

 

[Rocky]

It's interesting how our eyes can sometimes deceive us. We are all guilty of this. Here is the TomTom real time congestion information for London. Today's levels are lower than the average for 2020 and much lower than 2019 (which is a reasonable benchmark). Rush hour peaks were typically around 70% (however that is calculated, I think it is something to do with cars/available network capacity) but is running about 30% this week.
London traffic report | TomTom Traffic Index

Not trying to be a smart alec here. But there have been a lot of posts about how busy everywhere, lack of compliance etc etc but the data doesn't support this

Edit to add: It's very interesting if you look at comparable data for other W European capitals. Their congestion levels are very close to 2019 indicating that the reduction in traffic in London (and other UK cities) is not happening there

Interesting and thank you for posting. It certainly seems that London traffic is at lower levels.

Bur can I ask? What area does the London traffic report cover? I had a look and couldn't immediately determine. The particular journey I made today, I do regularly as I'm my mother's carer. I've been using my 'eyes' as you suggested but also using travel time as quantified by Google Maps - and it is this that I used to make my observations. I was lucky that there were no accidents or lane closures, but delays caused by sheer weight of traffic.

 

[Unkraut]

All with the benefit of hindsight in what was a fast moving situation.

That's not an excuse - I'm going to venture to say the entire West has to a greater or lesser extent mismanaged controlling the virus.

The countries of S E Asia have experience of this from previous pandemics, including implementing the distancing and masks, and reacted quickly. In Europe, once the pictures of what was happening in Italy were seen on the screen across the continent, it ought to have been obvious this was serious and needed a suitable response. The measures needed to slow the spread are not difficult to understand, but in a West overly obsessed with personal freedom as opposed to the collective it has proved hard to get the population to obey the rules sufficiently. Hence the endless moaning about 'face nappies' and 'healthy people being put under house arrest'. (DM commenters)

I don't think most of those here who are so critical of the government haven't been willing to give credit where it is due, namely the vaccination programme, but it does appear Johnson loused it up on a greater scale than has happened in other countries, and those Conservatives who are starting to argue for ending the lockdown might make the same mistake yet again.

 

[nickyboy]

Interesting and thank you for posting. It certainly seems that London traffic is at lower levels.

Bur can I ask? What area does the London traffic report cover? I had a look and couldn't immediately determine. The particular journey I made today, I do regularly as I'm my mother's carer. I've been using my 'eyes' as you suggested but also using travel time as quantified by Google Maps - and it is this that I used to make my observations. I was lucky that there were no accidents or lane closures, but delays caused by sheer weight of traffic.

Sorry I don't know. At a guess I'd say it's " Greater London" (so M25 is largely outside this definition?)

I've been using this website since the Chinese outbreak as it is quite a good metric for assessing how locked down places really are. Paris, Berlin, Madrid are really surprising. Their traffic congestion numbers are at 2019 levels suggesting that everyone is just travelling around there as normal during the daytime. Amsterdam and Rome are much more like London