Coronavirus outbreak

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Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
No vaccination programme in the world can "make the death toll" (past) any better.
I take it the point is that the government's inept handling of the virus at the beginning led to a rapid spread and all that follows from it in the form of overloaded healthcare and an excessive number of deaths especially amongst the elderly. The fact it has done well on the vaccination front, which is true, does not mean you can treat this like double-entry bookkeeping with credits and debits to decide if overall the government has done well.

Those making the decisions should be willing to say when they got things wrong rather than just claiming credit for when they go right.
 

Adam4868

Guru
No vaccination programme in the world can "make the death toll" (past) any better.
"take some accountability" Perhaps you could describe what sort of "accountability" you had in mind? 'They' have accounted and given reasons for their 'actions' and inactions. You may think the reasons given flawed.
The reasons given flawed ? Little bit if a understatemt.Blame the public not the goverment ?
Interesting thread on some of the "fibs" told along the way.

View: https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1347274149274791936?s=19
 
No vaccination programme in the world can "make the death toll" (past) any better.
"take some accountability" Perhaps you could describe what sort of "accountability" you had in mind? 'They' have accounted and given reasons for their 'actions' and inactions. You may think the reasons given flawed.

Is that you Dominic ?
 
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classic33

Leg End Member
Globally, there have
Been more than 95.91 million confirmed cases of coronavirus.
Been more than 2.04 million coronavirus-related deaths.
And more than 52.85 million recoveries
 
Well if you are going to dispute official figures, quoted by a cabinet minister - then there's no debate to be had.
I think calling cabinet figures into question is both right and proper, given the very clear memory I have of a time when a cabinet minister said that three hundred thousand and thirty four, nine hundred and seventy four thousand tests had been carried out, despite that not actually being a number.
 
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I think calling cabinet figures into question is both right and proper, given the very clear memory I have of a time when a cabinet minister said that three hundred thousand and thirty four, nine hundred and seventy four thousand tests had been carried out, despite that not actually being a number.

OK - See up thread there's a whole range of stats from behavioural scientists - some showing uk compliance is even 94%.

My point is with the govt seeking to push a proportion of the blame onto non compliance - Pri Patel is unlikely to quote an inflated figure. Perhaps if we just forget Pri Patel and say that the level of compliance in the UK isn't the real problem here.
 
I heard on today's news that the UK has the highest death rate per 100000 in the world. Wow! that's not something you'd want to be world beating at.
It may be a result of many things. Government slowness and errors in deciding to open up restaurants and pubs? Poor public health in parts of the UK? A NHS already short of funds? An older population? Obesity? A new variant?
I don't have an answer, possible all these plus others not mentioned.
Luckily the vaccination programme is going well and this may help in losing our unwanted first place in the death %, given time.
 

tom73

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
The fact that the vaccine program is going on the whole well has nothing to do with how the great the government is going. It's a great testament to Primary care who know, understand local peoples needs. All working together at a local level can do when you give it the chance to do it and let them get on with it. If only the government had done the same with testing and contact tracing we'd have got on top of this long ago.
 

johnblack

Über Member
I heard on today's news that the UK has the highest death rate per 100000 in the world. Wow! that's not something you'd want to be world beating at.
It may be a result of many things. Government slowness and errors in deciding to open up restaurants and pubs? Poor public health in parts of the UK? A NHS already short of funds? An older population? Obesity? A new variant?
I don't have an answer, possible all these plus others not mentioned.
Luckily the vaccination programme is going well and this may help in losing our unwanted first place in the death %, given time.
Highest for the last seven rolling days.
 
It might even out given time and the vaccinations.
It would be comforting if an independent enquiry established why the UK did so badly.
Can't see that happening, maybe an enquiry but in the government's control.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
It might even out given time and the vaccinations.
It would be comforting if an independent enquiry established why the UK did so badly.
Can't see that happening, maybe an enquiry but in the government's control.
Maybe they will stack the enquiry but it will still need a huge Reality Distortion Field to avoid pointing out three killer mistakes:

1. ignoring WHO advice on testing back in Feb/March and wasting over a month before the U-turn on 1/2 April — as late as 26 March, Dep CMO Harries was saying the WHO advice was aimed at poor countries and not appropriate for the UK, while Germany had built over 10 times our test capacity from a similar starting point;

2. unlocking too much too fast in July/August and then being slow with lockdown 2 — too fast because case numbers were still too high, while too much at once made it impossible to tell which measures had the most effect, which should have been useful in managing later waves; and did clinging to the tiers for too long and allowing case numbers to build mean variants became much more likely?

3. Happy Christmas Covid — unlocking in early December before case numbers were low enough, holding on to the Christmas bubbles long after it was obviously an unpopular and dumb idea, and forcing schools to open. Suspicions are that these moves were for economic reasons, but it may have been a straight-out classic Johnson dither, being unwilling to face bad news.

All of these could be learned from, but there seems no sign of it, so I fear another premature unlocking and a fourth wave with a long leading edge while Boris dithers meaning another far higher death toll than a short spike.
 

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
Maybe they will stack the enquiry but it will still need a huge Reality Distortion Field to avoid pointing out three killer mistakes:

1. ignoring WHO advice on testing back in Feb/March and wasting over a month before the U-turn on 1/2 April — as late as 26 March, Dep CMO Harries was saying the WHO advice was aimed at poor countries and not appropriate for the UK, while Germany had built over 10 times our test capacity from a similar starting point;

2. unlocking too much too fast in July/August and then being slow with lockdown 2 — too fast because case numbers were still too high, while too much at once made it impossible to tell which measures had the most effect, which should have been useful in managing later waves; and did clinging to the tiers for too long and allowing case numbers to build mean variants became much more likely?

3. Happy Christmas Covid — unlocking in early December before case numbers were low enough, holding on to the Christmas bubbles long after it was obviously an unpopular and dumb idea, and forcing schools to open. Suspicions are that these moves were for economic reasons, but it may have been a straight-out classic Johnson dither, being unwilling to face bad news.

All of these could be learned from, but there seems no sign of it, so I fear another premature unlocking and a fourth wave with a long leading edge while Boris dithers meaning another far higher death toll than a short spike.

All with the benefit of hindsight in what was a fast moving situation.

Each of the government policies looked reasonable enough at the time, given the competing interests they had to balance.

As more millions are vaccinated, the dramatic shifts in infection should slow, which will make planning the next moves easier.

However, there are still possibilities for which it is all but impossible to plan, such as a new variant which behaves in a markedly different way.

Good news for those whose main interest is keeping up a barrage of criticism aimed at the government.
 
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