Coronavirus outbreak

[Andy in Germany]

What’s the point now that the supposed rate here is so low? I could have understood doing this 2 months ago.

We had the same process: complete lockdown then as numbers of infections reduced, our state relaxed he rules but made masks mandatory in public places. Now we are getting towards normal but infections are staying low.

 

[MntnMan62]

So you're one of the sheep who need to be told what to do by clueless politicians, because you can't make up your own mind?
If you want to wear a mask, go ahead and wear one. Knock yourself out and enjoy being sweaty and uncomfortable all the time. I don't intend to follow suit though, whether the government thinks I should wear one or not.
They're theoretically supposed to be worn on public transport, but plenty of passengers are simply openly ignoring this edict. What is the bus driver going to do, get into a big row with every fourth or fifth passenger who isn't wearing one?

Interesting that you chastise someone for just going along yet you do the same thing saying that plenty of people don’t wear them so you won’t either? And it’s not just theoretical. There is science behind that requirement. Baaaaaaaaa.

 

[Tanis8472]

So you're one of the sheep who need to be told what to do by clueless politicians, because you can't make up your own mind?
If you want to wear a mask, go ahead and wear one. Knock yourself out and enjoy being sweaty and uncomfortable all the time. I don't intend to follow suit though, whether the government thinks I should wear one or not.
They're theoretically supposed to be worn on public transport, but plenty of passengers are simply openly ignoring this edict. What is the bus driver going to do, get into a big row with every fourth or fifth passenger who isn't wearing one?

Why does this not surprise me.

 

[Unkraut]

So you're one of the sheep who need to be told what to do by clueless politicians, because you can't make up your own mind?

It is reasonable to reserve judgement over what clueless politicians say, obviously, but not at the same time ignore the warnings of those with years of expertise and research in virology - unless they have become politicised, which seems to me to be rare at the moment.

... I've had more than enough of this lockdown nonsense already and I'm not planning to dance to any politicians tunes.

I'm not surprised you have had so much push back on this one. On Another Issue that has been debated and argued over for the last 4 years you were only too willing to be told what to do by clueless politicians and to dance to their tunes. The irony of it is exactly the same rogues gallery of politicians are now the ones you have chosen to ignore.

You'll find a significant proportion of the whole population are equally pissed off with it and are taking the same attitude, hence groups congregating and not maintaining distance from each other etc

I doubt if anyone likes the lockdown, and personally I find the requirement to wear a mask irritating. But it is not exactly asking much if it continues to keep the spread of the virus down, thereby saving the lives of those who are particularly vulnerable. It is anti-social (literally!) not to comply with this, and not doing so to take back control (as it were) is detrimental to the common good. At the very least masks remind everyone this wretched thing is still around, unlike some in Britain who get their (fake) news from social media and think the whole thing is now over.

If there is one thing likely to cause an increase in infections it is large numbers of people gathering together and ignoring distancing rules - pubs in particular. Some of it is happening here, lest you think Germany is the land of sinless perfection. But overall the population is holding to the guidelines and requirements because they have been convinced in their own minds this is a reasonable strategy to combat the spread - and everyone knows what is happening in meat factories where the distancing has been ignored.

 

[tom73]

So you're one of the sheep who need to be told what to do by clueless politicians, because you can't make up your own mind?
If you want to wear a mask, go ahead and wear one. Knock yourself out and enjoy being sweaty and uncomfortable all the time. I don't intend to follow suit though, whether the government thinks I should wear one or not.
They're theoretically supposed to be worn on public transport, but plenty of passengers are simply openly ignoring this edict. What is the bus driver going to do, get into a big row with every fourth or fifth passenger who isn't wearing one?

If it was found that each case of covid could be traced back to the individual who passed it on. Then you found out that due to your total lack of care for other around you. Your individual covid stain went on to kill someone. Would you still be so dismissive of this whole thing? Some how I sadly think you would. You really have now idea how deadly this thing is or what it means to to die from this. People who have died from Covid have literally drowned to death knowing they can do nothing about it. it's horrific, It's not quick or painless. Even if you get a mild form you're don't know what effects you will be left with or what effects you may go on to develop. Even if they survive being coming of a ventilator they face months of rehab or worse. We know someone (under 40 fit and well) who is still on a ventilator with Covid after 7 weeks he's now on dialysis and may need that for life. That's if he ever get's off a ventilator.

I won't even try to say what I think of your clear disrespect of clinical staff as it would get a bit messy and I'm not about to lower myself and get booted off here. They have worked round the clock to care for others and tried to allow the ones who die to so with dignity and not alone. In the most trying of situations they have never seen before. Working to keep others including you safe. All because they care for others no matter what. Two of my wife's former colleagues have died from Covid caring for others including possibly ones who like you don't give a fig.

Believe what you want , carry on blindly and my doing so put others at risk just do it well away from the rest of us.

 

[MrGrumpy]

You can read what you like into it, but I've had more than enough of this lockdown nonsense already and I'm not planning to dance to any politicians tunes. You'll find a significant proportion of the whole population are equally pissed off with it and are taking the same attitude, hence groups congregating and not maintaining distance from each other etc. It's over, the window of opportunity to modify public behaviour in order to increase the capacity to cope with the virus is now closed. From now on, it will run it's course and the outcome is the outcome, good or bad.

ahh well that's good, as you say good or bad eh ! Lets hope its all good for you rather than bad !

 

[RoadRider400]

You can read what you like into it, but I've had more than enough of this lockdown nonsense already and I'm not planning to dance to any politicians tunes. You'll find a significant proportion of the whole population are equally pissed off with it and are taking the same attitude, hence groups congregating and not maintaining distance from each other etc. It's over, the window of opportunity to modify public behaviour in order to increase the capacity to cope with the virus is now closed. From now on, it will run it's course and the outcome is the outcome, good or bad.

I can relate to this to some extent but its such a difficult line to tread. Protect lives vs tank the economy. Risk lives vs rescue the economy. Economy isnt really the right word to use because it implies that its lives vs money when it really isnt. The government is in a situation where its got to weigh up the lives of tens of thousands of people vs the quality of life of millions of people for many years to come. Whatever they do they are screwed.

 

[MntnMan62]

I can relate to this to some extent but its such a difficult line to tread. Protect lives vs tank the economy. Risk lives vs rescue the economy. Economy isnt really the right word to use because it implies that its lives vs money when it really isnt. The government is in a situation where its got to weigh up the lives of tens of thousands of people vs the quality of life of millions of people for many years to come. Whatever they do they are screwed.

Well, it is money or lives. But setting that aside for the moment, there are smart ways to approach things. And the approaches taken by some politicians have been quite stupid. Others have been very deliberate and smart in how they have interpretted the data and have refused to bow to public pressure. No one seems willing to accept the fact that we have a deadly disease that is killing people. It also happens to be killing the economy. But that's what virulent diseases do. They kill people AND economies. Life is difficult. How many of us have heard our parents say "life is hard." "Nothing in life is easy." I grew up hearing those words and now that I'm a parent myself and on the verge of turning 58, I realize how true those words are. The reality is that things wouldn't be so bad if people were just willing to follow the protocols that WE KNOW WORK. Social distancing and wearing a mask. When people do this, the number of cases and deaths goes down. When we don't do this, the numbers go up. And really, who difficult is it to wear a freaking mask? It's not. And you don't have to wear it all the time. Just when you are around other people and can't social distance. Some people take it to the other extreme. They are driving around in their car with no one else in the car with them and they have the mask on. It's just not necessary. You go shopping? Put on a mask. You go walking where you will come in contact with other people? You can leave it off until you get near someone else and you put it on for a few moments until you are no longer in close proximity to the other people. How hard is that? Yet people are complaining about this stuff. That's not only selfish but it's also lazy and entitled and childish. The reality is if everyone social distanced and wore masks, the numbers would go down and businesses could open up provided social distancing and masks are worn. And businesses could start making some money. Refuse to social distance and wear a mask and businesses can't open and have to remain shut and the economy stays in the dumper. How difficult is THAT for people to get their heads around? It's very simple. And there is no shortage of stupid, selfish, lazy, entitled and childish people.

 

[MrGrumpy]

This government screwed up when they didn't take the threat seriously enough, its was heading through Europe in Feb and they did nothing ! Anyway you right the government are on a lose lose , especially when some folk will not do as they are told !

 

[RoadRider400]

Well, it is money or lives. But setting that aside for the moment, there are smart ways to approach things. And the approaches taken by some politicians have been quite stupid. Others have been very deliberate and smart in how they have interpretted the data and have refused to bow to public pressure. No one seems willing to accept the fact that we have a deadly disease that is killing people. It also happens to be killing the economy. But that's what virulent diseases do. They kill people AND economies. Life is difficult. How many of us have heard our parents say "life is hard." "Nothing in life is easy." I grew up hearing those words and now that I'm a parent myself and on the verge of turning 58, I realize how true those words are. The reality is that things wouldn't be so bad if people were just willing to follow the protocols that WE KNOW WORK. Social distancing and wearing a mask. When people do this, the number of cases and deaths goes down. When we don't do this, the numbers go up. And really, who difficult is it to wear a freaking mask? It's not. And you don't have to wear it all the time. Just when you are around other people and can't social distance. Some people take it to the other extreme. They are driving around in their car with no one else in the car with them and they have the mask on. It's just not necessary. You go shopping? Put on a mask. You go walking where you will come in contact with other people? You can leave it off until you get near someone else and you put it on for a few moments until you are no longer in close proximity to the other people. How hard is that? Yet people are complaining about this stuff. That's not only selfish but it's also lazy and entitled and childish. The reality is if everyone social distanced and wore masks, the numbers would go down and businesses could open up provided social distancing and masks are worn. And businesses could start making some money. Refuse to social distance and wear a mask and businesses can't open and have to remain shut and the economy stays in the dumper. How difficult is THAT for people to get their heads around? It's very simple. And there is no shortage of stupid, selfish, lazy, entitled and childish people.

Extremely if you are one of the unfortunately people who have mild to severe anxiety, claustrophobia, asthma or any other condition that affects your ability to breathe normally. But dont let that keep you from your sweeping generalisations. Many people dont wear masks out of selfishness, lazyness or whatever you term you want to throw at them fine I dont dispute that. But perhaps spare a thought for those who need to get about but genuinely struggle to wear a mask for any length of time.

 

[MntnMan62]

Extremely if you are one of the unfortunately people who have mild to severe anxiety, claustrophobia, asthma or any other condition that affects your ability to breathe normally. But dont let that keep you from your sweeping generalisations. Many people dont wear masks out of selfishness, lazyness or whatever you term you want to throw at them fine I dont dispute that. But perhaps spare a thought for those who need to get about but genuinely struggle to wear a mask for any length of time.

I guess you missed the whole "life is hard" part of my post. I'm not making sweeping generalizations. Lots of us have all sorts of issues that we have to deal with every day of our lives. The virus doesn't care about our issues. It only knows a human host when it sees one and goes for it. It does not discriminate. Just so you know I have pretty severe claustrophopia. I can't go into a submarine. I have trouble sitting in a window seat on a crowded airplane. And if that seat is in the back of the plane, forget about it. I'm a complete basket case. I understand claustrophobia and anxiety quite well. None of what you say changes anything I've said and I vehemently disagree with you that I am making sweeping overgeneralizations.

 

[mjr]

It was yesterday too.

Anything useful on the covid show either day?

 

[mjr]

Extremely if you are one of the unfortunately people who have mild to severe anxiety, claustrophobia, asthma or any other condition that affects your ability to breathe normally. But dont let that keep you from your sweeping generalisations. Many people dont wear masks out of selfishness, lazyness or whatever you term you want to throw at them fine I dont dispute that. But perhaps spare a thought for those who need to get about but genuinely struggle to wear a mask for any length of time.

However, someone posting "I don't intend to follow suit though, whether the government thinks I should wear one or not" is probably not someone with a medical exemption, unless being a daffodil is now a disease affecting face covering.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

No one seems willing to accept the fact that we have a deadly disease that is killing people. It also happens to be killing the economy. But that's what virulent diseases do. They kill people AND economies.....................
The reality is that things wouldn't be so bad if people were just willing to follow the protocols that WE KNOW WORK. Social distancing and wearing a mask............
The reality is if everyone social distanced and wore masks, the numbers would go down and businesses could open up provided social distancing and masks are worn. And businesses could start making some money

I doubt you'll find many people who claim the virus is "fake". I'm well aware the virus is very real and is contagious. However, I do not believe that wrecking the economy, throwing millions of people out of work, destroying peoples businesses, and having a huge rise in deaths from other causes instead such as undiagnosed/untreated cancer, heart disease etc, is a price worth paying just to make the headline virus numbers look more palatable.
The mask wearing thing is just a joke. The only type of masks that could actually meaningfully reduce coronavirus transmission are proper medical/industrial grade ones for hazardous environments, and they are NOT comfortable to wear just for show, because they have to fit tightly and not leak. The sort of face coverings being promoted are nothing more than stage props and are ineffective against minute droplets. Wearing a coarse weave decorators dust mask or a bit of bedsheet tied over your mouth like a bandana is going to achieve nothing. Worse still, when people wear masks they irritate the face, so they fiddle about with them. They touch the mask and adjust it's position, they touch their nose. They rub their eyes. I see all this going on in public every day. All the wearers are doing is touching their faces with hands that might be pre-contaminated from a surface or from the outside of their own mask. They've got more chance of actually infecting themselves with either the coronavirus or any number of other nasties than preventing it!
As far as allowing businesses to make money, you aren't going to do that unless you abolish social distancing and allow normal customer densities in hospitality venues. No pub or restaurant is going to make a profit if only half the normal amount of customers are allowed in and the atmosphere is also spoiled by being told where and how to sit and to wear a mask. That isn't my idea of an enjoyable evening out, and nor I suspect will it appeal to the majority of drinkers and diners. I won't be spending any of my money in such venues until I can sit exactly how and where I want and can socialise normally. If I ran such a business I would stay shut, keep my staff on furlough, and let the government carry on picking up the bill until I could get enough customers in to justify all the staffing costs and electricity bills etc. Most such businesses have a lot of loss-making hours in the week and only make their money during the busy periods when they are full up. If you prevent a business running at full capacity you take away their ability to be profitable.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Protect lives vs tank the economy.

No. That's the very definition of a false dichotomy.

Those countries who responded fast and maximised restrictions are fastest out and have the least hit to their economies.

Fundamentally it's not the restrictions which harm the economy. Its fear of the virus.