Coroner wants cyclists to be educated about danger of HGV's

[Linford]

Can you find an example where cycle training has reduced road deaths, anywhere in the world, ever? You're posting the same victim-blaming rubbish you posted on the Dr Helen Measures thread where you made up lies about a dead young woman cyclist. You're doing the same on this thread, not one single post of mine was addressed to you but you keep spamming with the same, repetitive, predictable and boring victim-blaming. Write to Svitlana's parents with your hilarious "Utterly plank-stupid and unaware riders" remark if you like, just stop spamming yet another thread about yet another dead young woman with your unpleasant sneering and contempt for a life lost.

If you are implying that training doesn't work, then I take it you never got potty trained, and regularly fill your knickers

 

[glenn forger]

If tfl received twenty one warnings, and are as far as we know pressing ahead with Boris's expansion, it makes it legally interesting. The same thing happened at Kings Cross:

http://road.cc/content/news/46409-c...laughter-prosecution-over-kings-cross-cyclist

Do it. Charge them. Charge tfl.

1. They are the Transport Authority in charge
2. They encouraged people to ride on defective facilities
3. They were warned about the defects by professionals
4. They did not fix the defects because Boris Johnson had told TfL to prioritise "smoothing traffic flow" over the safety of vulnerable road users.

How more evidence do you need?

 

[glenn forger]

If you are implying that training doesn't work, then I take it you never got potty trained, and regularly fill your knickers

I'm not implying anything, I'm asking if there is any evidence that cycle training reduces rtcs. Anywhere. In the world. Ever. If we're discussing a case where a driver killed someone whilst having a good old natter on the phone it's also irrelevant.

 

[Boris Bajic]

Can you find an example where cycle training has reduced road deaths, anywhere in the world, ever? You're posting the same victim-blaming rubbish you posted on the Dr Helen Measures thread where you made up lies about a dead young woman cyclist. You're doing the same on this thread, not one single post of mine was addressed to you but you keep spamming with the same, repetitive, predictable and boring victim-blaming. Write to Svitlana's parents with your hilarious "Utterly plank-stupid and unaware riders" remark if you like, just stop spamming yet another thread about yet another dead young woman with your unpleasant sneering and contempt for a life lost.

These are difficult data with which to furnish you, as it is hard to identify who is alive but would be the inverse had they not been trained. We may identify trends, but specific cases you will not find - for reasons that should be obvious. Nonetheless, I will give some examples of helpful training:

1. Me, Cycling Proficiency at primary school, circa 1972.
2. My two elder children, Bikeability circa 2003 and 2005.
3. All my children - road rides with me when they were very young, on tag-along and on bikes.

None of my children would cycle up the nearside of an HGV in traffic. None of them would position themselves to the immediate front nearside of an HGV at a junction. They were trained (all of them by me and two of them also through their school).

I do not blame the victim, Miss Pereschenko. Perhaps she was trained. Perhaps in the circumstances she made a judgement that it was safe to place her bicycle on the road as she did and to re-mount it. I will never know. Like you, I was not there.

I believe that many CC members with cycling children would speak very highly of the safety benefits offered by training. Many of them (like me) will have enjoyed its benefits while children themselves.

Others will have spotted that I accept the need for haulage firms, road planners and others to address the issue too. But this does not lessen the obligation of all cyclists to make sure they know how to ride safely in the company of HGVs if they want to optimise their chances of drawing a pension. It is common sense. Others contributing to this thread seem to be able to read my whitterings without getting all Attack Dog. I seem to flick a switch in you. Might I suggest putting me on 'ignore'. You might sleep better.

 

[Linford]

These are difficult data with which to furnish you, as it is hard to identify who is alive but would be the inverse had they not been trained. We may identify trends, but specific cases you will not find - for reasons that should be obvious. Nonetheless, I will give some examples of helpful training:

1. Me, Cycling Proficiency at primary school, circa 1972.
2. My two elder children, Bikeability circa 2003 and 2005.
3. All my children - road rides with me when they were very young, on tag-along and on bikes.

None of my children would cycle up the nearside of an HGV in traffic. None of them would position themselves to the immediate front nearside of an HGV at a junction. They were trained (all of them by me and two of them also through their school).

I do not blame the victim, Miss Pereschenko. Perhaps she was trained. Perhaps in the circumstances she made a judgement that it was safe to place her bicycle on the road as she did and to re-mount it. I will never know. Like you, I was not there.

I believe that many CC members with cycling children would speak very highly of the safety benefits offered by training. Many of them (like me) will have enjoyed its benefits while children themselves.

Others will have spotted that I accept the need for haulage firms, road planners and others to address the issue too. But this does not lessen the obligation of all cyclists to make sure they know how to ride safely in the company of HGVs if they want to optimise their chances of drawing a pension. It is common sense. Others contributing to this thread seem to be able to read my whitterings without getting all Attack Dog. I seem to flick a switch in you. Might I suggest putting me on 'ignore'. You might sleep better.

Waits for someone to trot out the often used 'But anecdotal evidence is only real life' (or valid)

 

[glenn forger]

What? Are there some words missing there? It's a straightforward question, is there any evidence that cycle training has ever reduced accidents. And how relevant is cycle training when cyclists share the roads with vehicles that have blind spots the owner doesn't bother to address, and who is on the phone?

 

[400bhp]

What? Are there some words missing there? It's a straightforward question, is there any evidence that cycle training has ever reduced accidents. And how relevant is cycle training when cyclists share the roads with vehicles that have blind spots the owner doesn't bother to address, and who is on the phone?

:sigh:

 

[glenn forger]

In other words, were the chances of the lorry driver noticing the cyclist improved or worsened by him chatting to his dad on a mobile phone?

 

[Boris Bajic]

What? Are there some words missing there? It's a straightforward question, is there any evidence that cycle training has ever reduced accidents. And how relevant is cycle training when cyclists share the roads with vehicles that have blind spots the owner doesn't bother to address, and who is on the phone?

Well.... I am trained. I share the highway with motorists who use mobile telephones. Indeed I did so myself when it was legal, bicycle and car.

Partly because I am trained and partly because I give some thought to my own longevity, I do not place my bicycle to the immediate nearside front of HGVs at majot London junctions. Nor (I hope) do my children, who are also trained.

I see people do it, but they ride as if they have never been in the same county as a cycle training session. That is their choice. Usually it is not a life-prolonging choice, but it is their choice.

I have (as I explained above) no data on how training has saved lives or prevented RTAs. I simply do not know the answer to your question.

The narrative verdict of Miss Terschenko's inquest suggested that her bicycle was placed where it and she were invisible to the driver. She might have been trained to a degree I cannot even fathom and She may have had an extremely good reason for placing herself and her bicycle where she did. I was not there. I do not know. This thread is about training cyclists to ride on roads they share with HGVs. I think there is a case for doing so. I do not cite Miss Pereschenko as evidence. I did not witness her accident or her death.

You disagree with me. Or at least I am forming the impression that you do not agree with me completely. Insofar as our views differ, you seem to be focussing on my bein a victim-blaming, lying, filth-spewing merchant of evil with he blood of innocen children dripping from my teeth and claws. This is an accurate picture, quite unaffected by any detectable mental imablance. I am exactly as I describe what I suggest is your vision of me. You win.

But there is a strong case for cyclists to learn how to ride around HGVs. There are people alive today who do not understand the risks presented bt riding in the blind spots of HGVs. I wish them well. But I would not sell them life cover.

I'm out of this thread now. I fear you may explode.

 

[glenn forger]

:sigh:

He meant to type "isn't", I think, the sentence makes no sense as it is.

 

[400bhp]

 

[glenn forger]

What do you think 'But anecdotal evidence is real life' (or valid)" means?

 

[400bhp]

It's a straightforward question, is there any evidence that cycle training has ever reduced accidents

Come on

 

[glenn forger]

It's worth reading Tom Edwards' feed from the court.

"TfL’s lawyer suggested to Mrs De Gerin-Ricard that it had been the lack of high-visibility clothing that had led to her daughter’s death."

Coroner: "But it was daylight".

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

If HGVs didn't exist and someone now came up with the idea of allowing enormous partially-sighted multi-tonne vehicles with murderous drag sweeps onto our roads, and particularly our city roads, with side guard exemptions for the construction trade, abandonment of adequate vehicle safety checks and tipper truck drivers on piece rates, then we'd all know about their dangers. And they simply wouldn't be allowed.

Those that were allowed would have to have more than only front wheel steering so that the rear axle would not blindly wipe out whoever the driver happened not to see, the lines of sight for drivers would be improved and transparent side view panels would be standard, plus there would be severe restrictions on their use in urban areas, and safety checking would be carried out systematically with extra severe sentences for infractions.

The current situation is simply unacceptable. The people who end up paying with their lives, their relatives who suffer the losses, even the drivers who end up uninjured but traumatised are the ones who suffer.

They would not be allowed as they are. They are the elephant on the road who nobody (well, few) are prepared to mention.