Cost of fuel.

[mjr]

I assume all the people going on about being able to live without a car either work in one place that can easily be commuted to on either public transport or cycle/walk etc or don't work?

I guess none of you travel to more than one place in a day that's more than a few mile away or have to carry equipment/spares or materials?

Firstly, I have done jobs that have gone to more than one faraway place and needed to carry equipment. I was one of those guys with a backpack full of kit and a small sackbarrow of boxes on the local trains/trams. It worked because it was in cities with decent transport services (Manchester and London). It would not work everywhere because our bottom-backwards country does not recognise that decent transport is a basic service needed for sustainable development.

Secondly, you seem to be arguing that people should be allowed to continue antisocial unnecessary single-person car use because builders and plumbers sometimes need vans or trucks to move supplies. I think literally no-one here is saying to ban commercial traffic that cannot reasonably be done any other way until we have cargo consolidation centres and the like. I know it does not fit YOUR narrative to keep the discussion to the private single-occupancy vehicle but let's try.

 

[winjim]

Has anyone considered smashing the patriarchy? I think it would help a lot.

 

[mjr]

[...] would cost a lot more in public transport than it currently does in fuel. Add to that cost of a taxi for garden/DIY stuff and there is no comparison (taxis are also abysmal here, I've never had one on time).

The main factor is TIME! I don't have time to make greener transport choices if I want to keep my job

Both of those have a big dollop of "it depends how you look at it".

The cost of car use is more than the cost of fuel. Some of those other costs (service intervals, insurance) are or can be mileage-linked, whereas others (excise duty, test fees) are not and maybe ought to be. Similarly, there is a tendency among motorists to compare the cost with public transport using single-person single-trip open tickets for each person for each journey, ignoring daily caps, timed passes and multi-person and multi-trip tickets. Part of that is partly the fault of transport operating companies and government to define a consistent product range, to roll-out Oyster-style contactless ticketing (ITSO smartcards are a special farce) and to advertise them.

It also depends how you look at time. Cars have a shorter journey time (but only match buses once in built-up areas, thanks to the Downs-Thomson Paradox), but it's all time where the driver should not be doing anything else significant (else they are a potentially-lethal hazard). Buses often have the longest journey time, but you only need pay attention for a few seconds when boarding and intermittently to spot your stop (if not going to a required all-stop) and the rest of the time is yours to do whatever. Bikes are between the two in both journey time and required level of attention (as it's far easier to pull a bike over to do something else), but should (under current UK government policies) have the benefits of free parking closer to the destination (so less time walking slowly), not needing trips to a fuel station and being easier than buses (and maybe cars) to combine trip purposes. Car enthusiasts like to ignore than you mustn't do your emails or website discussions while driving...

 

[jowwy]

Firstly, I have done jobs that have gone to more than one faraway place and needed to carry equipment. I was one of those guys with a backpack full of kit and a small sackbarrow of boxes on the local trains/trams. It worked because it was in cities with decent transport services (Manchester and London). It would not work everywhere because our bottom-backwards country does not recognise that decent transport is a basic service needed for sustainable development.

Secondly, you seem to be arguing that people should be allowed to continue antisocial unnecessary single-person car use because builders and plumbers sometimes need vans or trucks to move supplies. I think literally no-one here is saying to ban commercial traffic that cannot reasonably be done any other way until we have cargo consolidation centres and the like. I know it does not fit YOUR narrative to keep the discussion to the private single-occupancy vehicle but let's try.

more ant-motoring drivel.........so you're telling me self employed electricians, plumbers, carpenters should not have their own vehicles?? what about learn to drive vehicles, who for most, make journeys solo, should they go to a centre of shared vehicles???

what about the big 52 seater buses that drive around almost empty, with just a driver whistling as he drives, should they be not allowed or made smaller for rural towns/villages??

and as for the comment of " should be allowed to continue anti-social unnecessary single person car use". Do we now live in north korea/china/russia where the state controls individuals lives??? i dont think so fella

 

[nickyboy]

There are times I get bored of CC and wonder if it's worth the effort in remaining engaged with the forum

Then threads like this pop up and it all makes total sense to me. Keep up the entertainment!!

 

[Rocky]

Has anyone found a way of bottling anger, insults and aggression? There’s enough in this thread to heat the whole of Coventry for a year.

 

[Electric_Andy]

it depends how you look at it

Exactly. It can work for some but not for others. When I was at Uni, a car would have been a burden (even if it was free to run). I'd worry about where to park it as I could walk everywhere I need to go. But that's because I started from ground zero with no car. I ran my life around having no car. Now it is very different, people have planned and run their lives for years (in my case, 12 years) around having a car.

There's no point trying to persuade a chef to open a restaurant, and then to turn round and say the chef needs to outsource the cooking to a sustainable public catering firm. Which is basically what this discussion is about re: cost of fuel. For most, fuel is now a necessity unless you've never had a car.

Out of interest: do you drive? Did you ever own a car?

 

[Deleted User]

Has anyone found a way of bottling anger, insults and aggression? There’s enough in this thread to heat the whole of Coventry for a year.

No anger or aggression from me, a mild observation of someone's view on the world maybe?

I know what world I live in and it certainly isn't one that can practically do without a car/van and that's not just me but most people I know.

I also appreciate that if the only people someone else knows lives on a bus route, works in a static location and doesn't want to own anything remotely interesting then it would be easy to form their opinion.

 

[jowwy]

It looks like, from the headlines this morning, that things are going to get worse before they get better. I predict a lot more people wil be trying to reduce their vehicle use if possible. I agree that using taxis and buses is sometimes better for some, but let's face it, most of us who have cars do not use then 24/7. They have to sit on our drive for when we need them. A good compromise (as I'm sure many do already) is to re-think how many trips you actually need to make in the car. I use my car a lot less in the summer when I walk to collect my son, and sometimes walk to the corner shop. I just look at all my other journeys I need to make, going to my partners house after work, coming back in the morning, visiting my parents 30 miles away (with my son); would cost a lot more in public transport than it currently does in fuel. Add to that cost of a taxi for garden/DIY stuff and there is no comparison (taxis are also abysmal here, I've never had one on time).

The main factor is TIME! I don't have time to make greener transport choices if I want to keep my job

if i had to wait for taxis to arrive to go get my garden/diy supplies, i wouldnt be able to use my garden for 3 summers.......some people dont live in the real world.

Also how do i get all the waste materials as i produce them to the waste management site?? do i need a taxi to do that too ( dont think he would be too happy ) loading his car with waste and then telling him where to take it and then have him wait while i unload it at the site.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

if i had to wait for taxis to arrive to go get my garden/diy supplies, i wouldnt be able to use my garden for 3 summers.......some people dont live in the real world.

Agree that waiting for a taxi for 3 years is a bit much.

 

[Electric_Andy]

if i had to wait for taxis to arrive to go get my garden/diy supplies, i wouldnt be able to use my garden for 3 summers.......some people dont live in the real world.

Also how do i get all the waste materials as i produce them to the waste management site?? do i need a taxi to do that too ( dont think he would be too happy ) loading his car with waste and then telling him where to take it and then have him wait while i unload it at the site.

Yes exactly, as I said it can work for some who just have a flat and no kids for example, but for many it is not an option. We can't control the cost of fuel so it seems the only thing we can do is to try and make fewer trips thus using less fuel. Which in itself is hard to do in the winter, and even harder when you don't live in a modern city. I think this discussion has come to a natural end though; those who don't have cars will oppose car use, and those with cars will oppose any other "alternatives" because to them (including me) they are utopian ideoligies

 

[jowwy]

Agree that waiting for a taxi for 3 years is a bit much.

i said all my garden/diy supplies....not just one taxi, but you knew that and was yet again being your usual pedantic self

 

[I like Skol]

i said all my garden/diy supplies....not just one taxi, but you knew that and was yet again being your usual pedantic self

Woah!!!!! My irony alarm just went berzerk

 

[byegad]

I've had transport, motorbike and sidecar, car, motorbike and any combination of the three all my life, before I had a licence my dad had one or the other and I benefitted. So 70 yrs of easy mobility. But... The place and world I came from had few private cars or motorbikes and for most it was walk, bike, bus or train if you needed to travel. While range of mobility was more limited than today, believe it or not, everybody managed to be born, schooled, work and have leisure time.

The problems coming at us, as a world and at a rush, is that we all will have to adapt to more expensive travel. Some of us will no longer afford to drive, or heat our homes adequately and it's gonna sting!

However, alternate, plentiful energy is possible, and we will need to invest at pace in increasing supply. Sadly we have as a nation beggared about too long to get more nuclear generation on line quickly, and it, in and of itself is not the final solution to the world's energy needs.

Before people queue up to tell us how they can't live where they live and work where they work let me say I know and you'll need to move home or job to make it work, but over my lifetime I've seen local rail scrapped, local busses cut and this under the pressure of personal mobility. The lack of such mobility will drive provision of public transport. However there will be a lag in such provision and like I said before..... IT'S GONNA STING!

 

[classic33]

Firstly, I have done jobs that have gone to more than one faraway place and needed to carry equipment. I was one of those guys with a backpack full of kit and a small sackbarrow of boxes on the local trains/trams. It worked because it was in cities with decent transport services (Manchester and London). It would not work everywhere because our bottom-backwards country does not recognise that decent transport is a basic service needed for sustainable development.

Secondly, you seem to be arguing that people should be allowed to continue antisocial unnecessary single-person car use because builders and plumbers sometimes need vans or trucks to move supplies. I think literally no-one here is saying to ban commercial traffic that cannot reasonably be done any other way until we have cargo consolidation centres and the like. I know it does not fit YOUR narrative to keep the discussion to the private single-occupancy vehicle but let's try.

Do you drive a private car, and is it your own?
If so aren't you part of the problem.