COVID Vaccine !

[winjim]

Italy have passed a law requiring doctors and health workers be vaccinated. France and Belgium will be deciding this week, if I understood the report correctly.

Is that necessary? Have they had low voluntary takeup or is there another reasoning behind it?

 

[PK99]

Is that necessary? Have they had low voluntary takeup or is there another reasoning behind it?

BMJ:

Laura Palazzani, deputy vice president of the National Bioethics Committee, said, “Vaccines are an ethical obligation for health professionals: their professional duty to treat the sick obliges them to avoid transmitting the infection, to operate in safe conditions, and to provide reliable information on the significance of vaccines for the protection of public health.” The committee generally supports voluntary vaccination but has said that it accepts the value of mandatory vaccination of healthcare workers when necessary.

 

[winjim]

BMJ:

Laura Palazzani, deputy vice president of the National Bioethics Committee, said, “Vaccines are an ethical obligation for health professionals: their professional duty to treat the sick obliges them to avoid transmitting the infection, to operate in safe conditions, and to provide reliable information on the significance of vaccines for the protection of public health.” The committee generally supports voluntary vaccination but has said that it accepts the value of mandatory vaccination of healthcare workers when necessary.

Indeed. It's the 'necessary' bit I'm querying. Is it PR?

 

[mjr]

Is that necessary? Have they had low voluntary takeup or is there another reasoning behind it?

I didn't know anything more than the short TV news report I saw, but the same BMJ article as the above quote came from, found at https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n905 says:
"In Lombardy, the northern Italian region worst hit by covid-19, 6-10% of healthcare workers have not joined the vaccination plan, while in the southern region of Puglia the regional authority estimates that proportion to be 10-15%."

Is that low? Or is it just low enough to cause problems?

 

[winjim]

I didn't know anything more than the short TV news report I saw, but the same BMJ article as the above quote came from, found at https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n905 says:
"In Lombardy, the northern Italian region worst hit by covid-19, 6-10% of healthcare workers have not joined the vaccination plan, while in the southern region of Puglia the regional authority estimates that proportion to be 10-15%."

Is that low? Or is it just low enough to cause problems?

15% does seem like low uptake to me actually although obviously I'm not an expert. It could be that they want to influence or to reassure the public as well. I wonder who they're counting as healthcare workers.

 

[mjr]

15% does seem like low uptake to me actually although obviously I'm not an expert.

15% not voluntarily vaccinating, or 85% uptake, but I suspect you knew that and just misphrased.

 

[winjim]

15% not voluntarily vaccinating, or 85% uptake, but I suspect you knew that and just misphrased.

Indeed. I was trying to untangle the way it was quoted and then phrased as 'low'. But we both know what each other meant...

 

[mjr]

Italy have passed a law requiring doctors and health workers be vaccinated. France and Belgium will be deciding this week, if I understood the report correctly.

France making it compulsory for healthcare, before the UK, also a vaccine status cert will be required to sit indoors at cafes and restaurants and so on. https://www.france24.com/en/europe/...nounces-new-restrictions-for-the-unvaccinated

Germany has decided against it for now.

 

[Andy in Germany]

France making it compulsory for healthcare, before the UK, also a vaccine status cert will be required to sit indoors at cafes and restaurants and so on. https://www.france24.com/en/europe/...nounces-new-restrictions-for-the-unvaccinated

Germany has decided against it for now.

I think there may be constitutional issues in Germany with either compulsory vaccination or certificates: some of the states have already been making noises about personal freedoms.

 

[C R]

I think there may be constitutional issues in Germany with either compulsory vaccination or certificates: some of the states have already been making noises about personal freedoms.

And which freedom is that, the freedom to be a danger to everyone else?

 

[PK99]

France making it compulsory for healthcare, before the UK, also a vaccine status cert will be required to sit indoors at cafes and restaurants and so on. https://www.france24.com/en/europe/...nounces-new-restrictions-for-the-unvaccinated

Germany has decided against it for now.

Civil Law/Napoleonic Code countries find it easier to impose such Rules/Laws than Common Law Countries like the UK.

Germany, for obvious historical reasons, is nervous about civil liberties/Personal freedoms

 

[Andy in Germany]

And which freedom is that, the freedom to be a danger to everyone else?

For fairly understandable historical reasons, the German government is very careful about insisting on medical procedures for individual citizens.

 

[C R]

For fairly understandable historical reasons, the German government is very careful about insisting on medical procedures for individual citizens.

I don't think that argument can be reasonably made in this case.

 

[Andy in Germany]

I don't think that argument can be reasonably made in this case.

Thankfully it isn't our decision: it would have to get past the constitutional court where the argument would be made and counter arguments presented, and then be ratified by the states where the arguments would be checked against the state constitutions; I have a sneaking suspicion that it wouldn't pass.

 

[PK99]

Thankfully it isn't our decision: it would have to get past the constitutional court where the argument would be made and counter arguments presented, and then be ratified by the states where the arguments would be checked against the state constitutions; I have a sneaking suspicion that it wouldn't pass.

Covid-Times have been a revelation (for me) re the complexities of the Geman Constitution and the Lander structure. Far from the Unitary State i had previously though it to be.