CTC forum thread on 'Charity' status

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Location
Midlands
dellzeqq said:
psmiffy - my point is that if councillors wanted to send out an e-mail, then they should request a list of e-mail addresses from National Office and do it themselves. That I'm all in favour of - and it would be nice if it became a habit. I'd also like to see different councillors in the same region sending out e-mails in their name - which, as far as I know hasn't happened. I hope that new Councillors have not seen their names tacked on to the bottom of e-mails.

And again, why were certain councillors invited to submit scripts and others not? And, again, did all the councillors who have nomimally sent out e-mails know what was going on. Perhaps it's time to ask.

I would suggest that National Office sending out the emails may be attributed to an interpretation (or possibly a misinterpretation) of the Data Protection Act - However, I agree that if emails have been sent out pertaining to be from particular councillers without their agreement or knowledge then something smells in the Kingdom of Denmark.

I would suggest that you or a nay counciller should be asking these questions. I would reiterate that the Nay Lobby should make a Formal request to be availed the same facility.
 

theclaud

Openly Marxist
Location
Swansea
What's happening at Member Group level, folks? Outside SW London, I mean. With the debate appearing in Cycle, it's a good moment to step up your efforts. I've been finding that a post of User's from the CTC forum has been coming in handy for summarising the issues with undecided or apathetic members (possibly handier in this context, if Simon will forgive me, than the savethectc blog, which I think works better as an information source for those already wary of the proposal). Hope User will excuse me copying it below:

As some of you may know, I am on CTC Council and I was asked to sit on the Governance Working Group, which was supposed to look at all the options for the CTC's future shape and status. One reason I was asked to do this is that I used to work in the charitable sector (I was Deputy Chief Executive of two national charities) and I am the only person on Council with a formal qualification in charity management (I have the Institute of Chartered Secretaries & Administrators Certificate in Charity Management).

I went into my work with an open mind. I could understand the potential benefits to members of CTC having a unified structure. However, I was also mindful of the very real problems that such changes could bring, particularly if rushed into.

The Governance Working Group was supposed to be given the chance to do some 'blue sky' thinking and to look at all the options. Council and National Office were supposed to be 'hands off' and give us space to do our work without undue pressure. Unfortunately, this did not happen. From the beginning, there was constant interference in our work.

CTC is a dysfunctional organisation. This has become clearer over my year on Council. We have an imbalance where the membership are disregarded and National Office concentrates its efforts on project work for government through the Trust. Whilst I can see the benefit of some of the project work, it is badly managed and often loss-making. We don't even have a proper project accounting system in place - despite this being a contractual requirement.

Significant sums of membership money (fees) have been used over the last few years to prop up loss-making projects in the Trust - somewhere in the region of £1.75 million. And we're not talking pre-approved losses - we're talking getting to the end of the year and the Club having to bail the Trust out. And this is on top of the significant sums that the Trust charges the Club for rent, services etc.

Having seen just how bad things are, I can no longer support the idea of unification at this time and I will be actively campaigning against it. The Chair of Council is trying desparately to quell any discontent by suggesting that there is 'collective responsibility' on Council. I've reminded him that we are not a political party or a local authority - we are a board of directors and we individually have responsibility to be open and honest with our 'shareholders' - the members.

This does not mean that I do not believe that it is not appropriate for the future - but at present, if we were to unify the Club and Trust, we would simply end up embedding bad practice, lack of proper governance and dysfunction. I'm sure there will be plenty of fine promises about how these issues will be addressed as part of the changes but I simply don't believe them. I want to see those changes made before any status change.

Don't forget - once the changes have been made they can't be undone.

Those opposing the changes have been promised a 'right of reply' in the next issue of Cycle... but they won't be able to see what they're replying to. There is also a website in the offing that will give CTC members the unspun figures and facts.

There's a lot of guff being given out about the benefits (in particular around Gift Aid). The figures are overstated and most of these benefits can be accessed without unification as a charity. And those benefits that members currently get through the Club will not be guaranteed in any unified charity - they will become purely discretionary.

The CTC Trust was created without reference to the members. The Club's main asset (its property) was given to the Trust without consultation with the members - and in a hurry. CTC's staff were transferred to the Trust without consultation with the membership.

National Office and a few members of Council are trying to push through these changes without full and proper consultation with the membership. The fact that there is any consultation is only because some members of Council have insisted on it.

I'm not going to tell people how to vote on this. All I'd say is read everything you can get your hands on - and read everything with a certain degree of scepticism. Ask questions - and treat the answers you get with due caution.

Use your vote. If you can't get to the AGM then use your proxy vote. Don't forget that you can give your proxy vote to anyone - not just the Chair - and you can tell them how you want it cast.

Join us in insisting that the actual number of votes cast for any motion is recorded... this hasn't happened in the past. We've simply been told that the proxies mean that the vote has gone one way or the other - we weren't told how many were cast for or against. Transparency in voting is something the CTC is not good at.

Tell your friends. Don't forget - at present the CTC is still a membership organisation and it is for the members to decide what to do. This may be your last chance to have your say!

And as I said before... once any changes have been made, they can't be undone. If we don't get it right, we're screwed!
 
psmiffy said:
I would suggest that National Office sending out the emails may be attributed to an interpretation (or possibly a misinterpretation) of the Data Protection Act

Interesting. The only time I can recall being asked my email address, was by the local Bedfordshire Group, in order that they can email their regular newsletter, rather than sending it in the post. There certainly wasn't any specific Data Protection wording provided at that time.

However, the main CTC application form does request an email address and has the wording:-

CTC will use the information you have provided here for the purpose of providing you with CTC membership services and membership benefits available to you as a member of CTC. CTC will not disclose this information to any other person or organisation except in connection with the above purposes. If you do not want us to contact you about CTC membership benefits, products or services, or if you have any query about the use we make of your data, please write to the Data Controller at Cyclists' Touring Club, Parklands, Railton Road, Guildford, GU2 9JX. I agree to the above use of my data.

So the fact I have subsequently provided my email address, as part of an update of my personal records, would give them carte blanche to email me anything they like, provided either the application form I completed originally had a similar wording (which is going to be the case as I only joined 5 years ago), or the annual renewal form has some form of Data Protection wording (which again is quite likely).

So I doubt there's any breach of Data Protection rules, unless of course the annual renewal form doesn't mention anything, in which case long serving members who joined before the Data Protection Act 1998 took effect (1st March 2000) could state there's been a breach.
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
Flying Dodo said:
CTC will use the information you have provided here for the purpose of providing you with CTC membership services and membership benefits available to you as a member of CTC.

So the fact I have subsequently provided my email address, as part of an update of my personal records, would give them carte blanche to email me anything they like,

As long as it's a CTC membership service or a membership benefit. I don't know whether propaganda (from either side) counts as either.
 

summerdays

Cycling in the sun
Location
Bristol
Flying Dodo said:
So the fact I have subsequently provided my email address, as part of an update of my personal records, would give them carte blanche to email me anything they like......(snipped)

So I doubt there's any breach of Data Protection rules.

As far as I understand Data Protection, which isn't extensive, just because CTC have the right to mail you, doesn't give them the right to distribute your email address to other CTC individuals to then email you.

I'm reading all this with interest as I was considering joining (is there a current membership goodie to tempt me with:smile:). What would be the latest I could join and take part in any vote - or is it already too late? If so I may hold off joining until this is all finished and decide whether to join based on the outcome.
 
summerdays said:
I'm reading all this with interest as I was considering joining (is there a current membership goodie to tempt me with:smile:). What would be the latest I could join and take part in any vote - or is it already too late? If so I may hold off joining until this is all finished and decide whether to join based on the outcome.

Same boat here. I await the outcome of this now, I'm not joining in the middle of it, or there's British Cycling.
 
OP
OP
dellzeqq

dellzeqq

pre-talced and mighty
Location
SW2
srw said:
As long as it's a CTC membership service or a membership benefit. I don't know whether propaganda (from either side) counts as either.

hah! Our reference to the campaign (and it's a passing one) is included in e-mails inviting people to join us on cycle rides! Oodathortit! A great pity that didn't occur to Messrs Spurr and Robinson - even after they'd received ours!
 
srw said:
As long as it's a CTC membership service or a membership benefit. I don't know whether propaganda (from either side) counts as either.

Even though I'm against the proposal, I would say any emailing about this issue is in connection with a CTC membership service. The Councillors for the conversion would, I'm sure, say converting to a charity is a membership benefit!
 
summerdays said:
As far as I understand Data Protection, which isn't extensive, just because CTC have the right to mail you, doesn't give them the right to distribute your email address to other CTC individuals to then email you.

The Councillors are representing the CTC, so in this respect they do have the right to contact the members, in accordance with the membership application form.

Obviously, I can use my right to opt-out of this form of communication.
 
OP
OP
dellzeqq

dellzeqq

pre-talced and mighty
Location
SW2
things have now taken a turn for the absurd.

IMPORTANT CHANGES TO THE REGISTRATION OF NATIONAL STANDARD CYCLE TRAINING
INSTRUCTORS.

This is not a circular

RE: Transfer of instructor Details to the-Department for Transport
-
As you will be aware, CTC has been holding a central database of qualified National Cycle Training Standard instructor records since the introduction
of the Adult Standards in 2003. In 2004, the Department for Transport (Dm) gave the CTC a grant to run a three-year programme of capacity building, utilising the CTC's database of instructors. The CTC continued to manage the database, but as DfT had, in Data Protection terms, become the Data Controller, this was on DfT's behalf. Following the end of the capacity-building contract, DfT are moving the database of instructors to a new contractor.

This is part of the wider plans to centralise the governance of cycle training to ensure that the high quality of training is maintained. Other proposals include recognising a number of organisations to replace the current system of instructor Training Providers and a scheme to inspect cycle training schemes.

As from 26 October 2009, all new instructors trained by the instructor Training Providers (ITPs) were registered on a central database which is
managed on behalf of DfT by Steer Davies Gleave (SDG). We are now preparing to transfer the existing database to the DfT where the data will merge with the new database. DfT will become the sole Data Controller for this data under the terms of the Data Protection Act 1998.

The CTC held the database and now they don't - it's gone 'to another contractor'. And that is really the nub of it. This work is here today, gone tomorrow stuff. Today CTC, tomorrow SDG. It's not about influence or prestige or standing or any fine stuff about history. It's about doing a job for a commercial client. I don't know why the contract went from CTC to SDG, but gone it has. But if you're looking for an organisation that understands the words 'capacity building' the CTC probably isn't it.

The telling news is that SDG isn't a charity. So much for charitable status.
 

theclaud

Openly Marxist
Location
Swansea
Thanks, User. Useful stuff. The impression I get from talking to undecided members down here (not that Swansea and West Wales is necessarily representative of anything) is that a lot of them are quite impressed by the benefits of Gift Aid; to some extent they buy the "tidying up" argument about the management structure; and they are suspicious of the motives of people arguing the No case. It's a bit galling to be accused of bias, as our scrupulously proper RtR rep was at a meeting last night, when all he was trying to do was to provide information to balance the propaganda of the Yes campaign...
 

snorri

Legendary Member
Just for information, I have now received from my DA a copy of SW London Resolution signed by one Mr S Legg, also a response from the Chairman to the resolution.
I will not attempt to precis either, but I note the Chairman welcomes the debate.
There is also a letter from one Jim Brown, who appears not to welcome debate.:tongue:
No doubt other members will get copies of these documents in due course.
 

clivedb

Guru
Location
Milton Keynes
Thanks for this thread, which I have come to after receiving unsolicited email from a Richard Bates. I was taken aback by the email which seemed an undemocratic exploitation of my email address by the CTC authorities.

I have replied to him making this point and asking whether there was a CTC policy that ensured equal opportunities for all sides of the argument to be made to members. I said: 'It seems to me unlikely that this will be the case if it is only councillors who are in favour of the unification of the organisation who are given the privilege of access to individual email addresses for the purpose of campaigning.'

I also suggested that a ballot on the issue might be conducted under the auspices of Electoral Reform services (a red herring, I am sure).

I also asked him the key financial questions that User suggested a few posts back.

I'll let you know the content of any reply.
 

Tynan

Veteran
Location
e4
read the no case from said Legg in the CTC mag with breakfast, it made sense, I glazed over very quickly skimming the yes chap's pitch/sermon
 

StuAff

Silencing his legs regularly
Location
Portsmouth
Not a CTC member, though I've thought about joining, one major reason I haven't is the problems I've heard regarding renewals, and another is this little issue. It sounds like a complete dog's breakfast- the CTC should get itself sorted out properly, not just throw more major change into an already somewhat shambolic situation....having perused Cycle in the library today, Simon made his case somewhat better than the other guy.
 
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