Current theme of knobheads in cars

[Drago]

No. I think this constant us and them narrative is not helpful. So a knob head is just a knob head.

Absolutely. They were born that way, and behave that way consistently. They didn't suddenly morph into bidders the moment they acquired a car.

And we as a user group dont help ourselves. Yes, I know motor vehicles are the real killers, but where is the moral imperative for motorists to behave when so many cyclists behave like utter nodules?

Theres a strange circle of life. Motorists want the police hassling burglars, burglars want the police hassling anyone but them, cyclists want the police hassling motorists, while no group is taking responsibility for their own behaviour writ large.

Pointing at someone else and going "yebbut theyre worse" simply serves to perpetuate the very situation we would like resolved.

The problem is one of knobheads everywhere, and until groups start dealing with the chumps within their own ranks no one will care about their finger pointing at other groups.

Im not saying its right, but that's simply how it is.

 

[Profpointy]

Yes - but it is all OK if they are OUR kind of knobheads!!!!

Whilst you make a fun quip, there is a serious point that one type kill a thousand a year in the UK and the other type are merely a minor annoyance

 

[Alex321]

Out of interest, do you ever get any feedback from Police about action taken when you have reported incidents?

I reported one a couple of year ago, and got a response that it "warranted action", though they didn't say what - I expect a warning letter. My camera died a few months after that, and I haven't got around to replacing it yet.

 

[Drago]

Whilst you make a fun quip, there is a serious point that one type kill a thousand a year in the UK and the other type are merely a minor annoyance

Yebbut!

 

[Alex321]

But for it to be only actioned because there is physical evidence of the incident seems to me blatantly wrong.

That is the case with almost all offences. My word against yours is never going to secure a criminal conviction, there has to be more evidence to show whose word is correct.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Whilst you make a fun quip, there is a serious point that one type kill a thousand a year in the UK and the other type are merely a minor annoyance

It was partly a fun quip - as you put it

but also partly cynical because far too many people make comments that make it sounds serious
i.e. telling stories about rampant cycling causing massive problems to the whole of society (based on 2 delivery riders)
and the same account positing about how terrible it is that "they" have done something that is a minor inconvenience to car drivers

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Absolutely. They were born that way, and behave that way consistently. They didn't suddenly morph into bidders the moment they acquired a car.

And we as a user group dont help ourselves. Yes, I know motor vehicles are the real killers, but where is the moral imperative for motorists to behave when so many cyclists behave like utter nodules?

Theres a strange circle of life. Motorists want the police hassling burglars, burglars want the police hassling anyone but them, cyclists want the police hassling motorists, while no group is taking responsibility for their own behaviour writ large.

Pointing at someone else and going "yebbut theyre worse" simply serves to perpetuate the very situation we would like resolved.

The problem is one of knobheads everywhere, and until groups start dealing with the chumps within their own ranks no one will care about their finger pointing at other groups.

Im not saying its right, but that's simply how it is.

I agree

but because of this I think it is importnat for as many cyclist as possible to obey the rules

Of course, a lot of "people" don;t know the rules and insist that we do things that are really against the rules
e.g. "You are not allowed to ride on the pavement" - when it is a shared path
"You shouldn;t be on the road"
"you are not allowed to ride without a helmet and hi-vis"

etc etc etc

but that is just how it is and every cyclist that stick to the rules has a small positive effect on some people

probably
sometimes anyway

 

[Dadam]

The problem is one of knobheads everywhere, and until groups start dealing with the chumps within their own ranks no one will care about their finger pointing at other groups.

Well yes knobheads are everywhere and there always will be. But how are groups supposed to deal with the chumps within their own "ranks" when these groups don't really exist as discrete entities?

I am not responsible for the behaviour of any other cyclists, just as while I'm a car driver I'm not responsible for the chumps who are on their phone all the time. I can only set an example

The knobheads are the least likely to be positively influenced by anything from with the "groups", least of all good examples. Remonstrating with the real peanuts will do nothing except provoke them.

 

[katiewlx]

Have to admit I am very pleasantly surprised by this, I really thought you were going to say it was a bit of a mixed bag in terms of responses. Really encouraging to see that your reports are acted upon. I have considered getting a camera myself on many occasions but if I am being honest I have always felt (seemingly incorrectly) that it would be a fruitless exercise. I am going to have to give it some serious consideration.

well I wouldnt want to say ever dont get a camera, I think theyre useful, and certainly as a record of evidence if the worst case scenario happens.

But I do think how the police deal with dash cam submissions is a very mixed bag across the country, and arguably increasingly so, as various forces it seems want to create more & more barriers, to curb the flow of reports it feels.

So if you find yourself with a police team who are committed to it, you might get some success and feel you are making a difference, or you might find yourself with a police team who are bored by it and instead you feel like you are banging your head against a brick wall.

Ive experience of both really from the same force it started off well,but then sadly the officer who was very committed to it, like alot of them it seems, quit for various reasons,and the ones who have replaced them since are very indifferent to the whole scheme.

and I look back at it being like nearly a decade of Op Snap, I think I made my first submission in 2018 after it had gone nationwide, and think of all the camera clips and "knobheads" in cars reported in that time, has it really made any difference to the way people behave on the roads ?

because it doesnt feel like it, I never encounter anyones behaviour on the road changes because they think I might have a camera on board or I might report them for being "knobheads".

like classic example yesterday the standard priority one where theres a bunch of parked cars on my right hand side on this road, there are places for drivers to pull in and stop. Im riding down the left side in prime, one to stop cars trying to squeeze past and overtake me, two to try and slow down drivers heading towards me.

But of course I get a driver who cant wait a few seconds and not just drives at me, accelerates & speeds at me, its only 20mph road and theyd got to at least 30mph, including over speed bumps, clearly werent going to slow, so I move over to the kerbside to make enough room, its still a close pass, Im like only 15cms away from their wing mirrors, theyre driving at speed, and they still have had time to wind down the window and shout some abuse about getting out of their damn way (thats the pre watershed translated version) whilst they pass

and Im like fine whatever, havent heard that one before (yeah like nearly every time), youre on camera, I could report it, I doubt the police would do anything about it, and even if they did I doubt the drivers behaviour would change.

I mean they are just driving along, but within 10 seconds of encountering me on the road, had already descended to full on road rage to deal with it, I half expected them to actually turn around and come back after me to carry on their rant, Ive had that before too. At no stage clearly in either case did the driver think cyclist with camera,Op Snap, police, prosecution, points on me licence, their first instinct was threaten cyclist with driving, then abuse. and fwiw I gave up engaging or reacting to such drivers abuse years ago, it confuses them more I think

 

[Binky]

well I wouldnt want to say ever dont get a camera, I think theyre useful, and certainly as a record of evidence if the worst case scenario happens.

But I do think how the police deal with dash cam submissions is a very mixed bag across the country, and arguably increasingly so, as various forces it seems want to create more & more barriers, to curb the flow of reports it feels.

So if you find yourself with a police team who are committed to it, you might get some success and feel you are making a difference, or you might find yourself with a police team who are bored by it and instead you feel like you are banging your head against a brick wall.

Ive experience of both really from the same force it started off well,but then sadly the officer who was very committed to it, like alot of them it seems, quit for various reasons,and the ones who have replaced them since are very indifferent to the whole scheme.

and I look back at it being like nearly a decade of Op Snap, I think I made my first submission in 2018 after it had gone nationwide, and think of all the camera clips and "knobheads" in cars reported in that time, has it really made any difference to the way people behave on the roads ?

because it doesnt feel like it, I never encounter anyones behaviour on the road changes because they think I might have a camera on board or I might report them for being "knobheads".

like classic example yesterday the standard priority one where theres a bunch of parked cars on my right hand side on this road, there are places for drivers to pull in and stop. Im riding down the left side in prime, one to stop cars trying to squeeze past and overtake me, two to try and slow down drivers heading towards me.

But of course I get a driver who cant wait a few seconds and not just drives at me, accelerates & speeds at me, its only 20mph road and theyd got to at least 30mph, including over speed bumps, clearly werent going to slow, so I move over to the kerbside to make enough room, its still a close pass, Im like only 15cms away from their wing mirrors, theyre driving at speed, and they still have had time to wind down the window and shout some abuse about getting out of their damn way (thats the pre watershed translated version) whilst they pass

and Im like fine whatever, havent heard that one before (yeah like nearly every time), youre on camera, I could report it, I doubt the police would do anything about it, and even if they did I doubt the drivers behaviour would change.

I mean they are just driving along, but within 10 seconds of encountering me on the road, had already descended to full on road rage to deal with it, I half expected them to actually turn around and come back after me to carry on their rant, Ive had that before too. At no stage clearly in either case did the driver think cyclist with camera,Op Snap, police, prosecution, points on me licence, their first instinct was threaten cyclist with driving, then abuse. and fwiw I gave up engaging or reacting to such drivers abuse years ago, it confuses them more I think

I agree it's hard to know if reporting bad drivers alters their behaviour. Maybe it p*sses them off more to know a cyclist has not only held them up for 20 seconds but also snitched on them.

However, if we do nothing then nothing will change. Plus, I cannot deny it's quite nice to get a bit of justice against the knobhead who endangered me so if they get points and a substantial fine that'll do. If nothing else changes at least I get the satisfaction of knowing I caused them some financial grief which will also affect their insurance.

 

[N0bodyOfTheGoat]

In terms of cameras and close passes, I wish the cameras could be calibrated to judge the speed of passing vehicles and the distance from the camera lens to the passing vehicle, to then automatically cut a reliable section of the recording of a close pass and send it to police (with the rider having filled in a form with their details when setting up the camera, that will be attached to the clip submission).

The idea being it saves riders spending a load of time reviewing recordings, grabbing clips of potential close passes, which they then ask the police to review and judge whether to take action. A calibrated system would only submit clips that the calibrated camera says were too close at the given speed of the vehicle, less police reviewing time needed, freeing them up to do more police action during shifts.

 

[Binky]

In terms of cameras and close passes, I wish the cameras could be calibrated to judge the speed of passing vehicles and the distance from the camera lens to the passing vehicle, to then automatically cut a reliable section of the recording of a close pass and send it to police (with the rider having filled in a form with their details when setting up the camera, that will be attached to the clip submission).

The idea being it saves riders spending a load of time reviewing recordings, grabbing clips of potential close passes, which they then ask the police to review and judge whether to take action. A calibrated system would only submit clips that the calibrated camera says were too close at the given speed of the vehicle, less police reviewing time needed, freeing them up to do more police action during shifts.

That is the crux of it why some forces are rowing back on Operation Snap as they say the police who deal with looking at video clips aren't sufficiently qualified to judge distances etc. Apparently this came about due to the Forensic Regulator after a driver challenged a case and he/she took in an expert trained defence.

However, this seems ridiculous as we know the width of a road, we know the width of a particular vehicle and in most cases it's blindingly obvious how close the vehicle is to the cyclist.

As for having cameras speed calibrated etc, I don't know if they are commercially available but if so would surely be prohibitly expensive. We'd need something akin to what the police have in the cars so it's ain't happening any time soon.

 

[Arjimlad]

I've been encouraged to see better driving following a police report, a good few times now.

All I really want.. the driver to wake up and be less of a knobhead around me.

 

[All uphill]

I am of the opinion that the behaviour of drivers changes primarily in response to the frequency with which they encounter cyclists.

Here in Taunton we have a much higher number of local journeys made by bicycle than the national average. That means that any drive through the town will encounter three or four people on bikes. My sense is that even Mr Angry can't sustain his fury every day in the face of that.

Personally I'm not too bothered about whether cars have to slow for cyclists, illegal ebikes or scooters; they all change the balance.

 

[Alex321]

I am of the opinion that the behaviour of drivers changes primarily in response to the frequency with which they encounter cyclists.

Here in Taunton we have a much higher number of local journeys made by bicycle than the national average. That means that any drive through the town will encounter three or four people on bikes. My sense is that even Mr Angry can't sustain his fury every day in the face of that.

Personally I'm not too bothered about whether cars have to slow for cyclists, illegal ebikes or scooters; they all change the balance.

I think there is a lot of truth to that. Here in the Vale of Glamorgan is also a high cyclist-density area, and my personal experience of cycling here is that it is quite rare to encounter real knobheads driving.