Cycle paths adjacent to main roads

[Mike_P]

Pretty certain no motorist no matter how short of braincells they are has ever suggested to a cyclist they use this cycle path, yes the far end is where the pole with its sign hidden in the trees is. Exit from a retail park and a few industrial units onto the A59 Skipton Road in Harrogate

Its one that could be readilly removed and the signs reused somewhere more useful.
An even dafter one on the Otley Road has been removed, it diverged to form a separate route through a pedestrian crossing and then immediately rejoined the carriageway with give way markings, all on a steepish gradient where no cyclist wants to stop.

 

[blackrat]

Well, it does if you aren't trying to get anywhere, and if like you or I, you are able-bodied, and experienced enough to deal with vehicles. However, for families trying to do the shopping, and kids trying to get to school, for example, you need to get to your destination in a reasonable time, and sharing roads with trucks and private cars is both dangerous and terrifying.
This is why the number of children and families on bikes increases dramatically where there's safe, well-built infrastructure. You may not feel the need, but they do.
Come to that, so do I: I was able to accept at least one job because I knew there was a traffic free cycleway following the main road from home to work: the alternative would have been riding on a busy road, equivalent to an A-road in the UK, which wouldn't have been practical.
In cases like this a cycleway isn't just safer, it's a good investment: it's a lot cheaper to maintain a cycleway than a road, so I was bringing in money to the economy while costing less than the cars passing me every day.

"You may not feel the need, but they do."
I do feel the need, but as I said, it does not exist in Britain, certainly nowhere near the extent that it does in France and maybe some northern European countries.

 

[Oldhippy]

As I've previously mentioned, if cycling advocacy groups banded together along with cyclists to shout as loud as the motoring lobbiesnaybe there would be some gains made. It took one woman in Holland to start a cycling revolution when her child getting run over was one death too many and look where they are now. It isn't a fast process nor is it impossible as many countries across the world prove. Lobby mp's repeatedly and don't stop until they listen. Currently in the UK it seems idealistic I agree but I don't think it is impossible and won't be tomorrow.

 

[katiewlx]

What radar scans ahead for passing places?

mk1 eyeball

Ive always maintained absolutely you dont want the crazy loose nut behind the wheel behind you, but I wont just dive into a hedge to let them by, Ill pick a safe for me place to pass, and if I have to ride in a manner that blocks the overtake till that point, I will.

 

[Alex321]

I have no idea what that means, is it intended it be snarky?

It was I think, a slightly humorous reference to the fact you said you were having a discussion with your routing app, together with the fact you were talking about routing in France.

 

[matticus]

It was I think, a slightly humorous reference to the fact you said you were having a discussion with your routing app, together with the fact you were talking about routing in France.

Only slightly?!? Sacre bleu!!!

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

There is a lot of difference in walking along a pavement full of other walkers versus hardly anyone else walking at all. With a crowd one naturally gives way, which is not required if the pavement is infrequently used. It is the same with cycling. It is probably different for commuters where the importance of crossing the Rubicon every day takes on a new meaning. Cycling for pleasure means just that, for pleasure, not for confrontation. If a car or truck thinks it wants my space, I will readily concede, as long as it is safe for me to do so.

Good illustration

Most people on a crowded path will adopt an attitude of co-operating and giving way

but even then you do get some people who HAVE to get there faster and will insist on pushing past and ignoring people coming towards them

In an airport you can understand that they might be late for a plane or something

but I am sure we have all seen it in shops and the like where they are just being ignorant, self centred and downright rude

I used to see this a lot with older people in supermarkets - a certain type of older person just walks in a straight like with their trolley and EXPECTS that people will get out of the way

I noticed it a lot once when my knee gave out and I have problem turning corners as it twisted my knee
so to turn with a trolley (containing my stick!) I had to stop and turn it a fraction , shuffle round to match it, then repeat

it meant that a lot of people who I had previously just gone round I now could not do so quickly and had to do it slowly
it showed me just how many people in Tesco I had been giving way to before that
and how many of them were really just rude

 

[matticus]

As I've previously mentioned, if cycling advocacy groups banded together along with cyclists to shout as loud as the motoring lobbiesnaybe there would be some gains made. It took one woman in Holland to start a cycling revolution when her child getting run over was one death too many and look where they are now. It isn't a fast process nor is it impossible as many countries across the world prove. Lobby mp's repeatedly and don't stop until they listen. Currently in the UK it seems idealistic I agree but I don't think it is impossible and won't be tomorrow.

I would add that if you live in the right area of the UK, the process is already happening! (every week I either see pics posted here, or stuff from local news where noisy motorists are complaining about new bike lanes)

Yes, it's frustrating if you live in a car-focused regime; but it's encouraging to see many progressive places in the UK. It shows that the "UK mindset" is NOT universally car-centric

 

[All uphill]

I would add that if you live in the right area of the UK, the process is already happening! (every week I either see pics posted here, or stuff from local news where noisy motorists are complaining about new bike lanes)

Yes, it's frustrating if you live in a car-focused regime; but it's encouraging to see many progressive places in the UK. It shows that the "UK mindset" is NOT universally car-centric

Hopefully expected increases in fuel costs will nudge a few more people towards cycling, too.

I would love to see a dawning that use of public transport, solar energy and cycling are ways to reduce our bills, but most of the people I talk with seem to be slightly terrified of a life without a car.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I would add that if you live in the right area of the UK, the process is already happening! (every week I either see pics posted here, or stuff from local news where noisy motorists are complaining about new bike lanes)

Yes, it's frustrating if you live in a car-focused regime; but it's encouraging to see many progressive places in the UK. It shows that the "UK mindset" is NOT universally car-centric

Here there is a major local road that used to be a dual carriageway with 2 lanes in each direction

many years - i.e. before I moved here - it was changed to one lane each way and a cycle lane
weirdly - but effectively - the cycle path is NOT against the kerb - there is a gap of a few feet
then double yellow lines

This seems to work really well

There is a similar dual carriageway on a residential street in Bootle that has not been changed and it is terrible - 2 lanes but only the outside one is usable due to cars and all sorts parked
so if you go into the left lane you end up having to come out after a minute at most - and then hope someone lets you out


never seen it anywhere else - but it does work

 

[mjr]

As I've previously mentioned, if cycling advocacy groups banded together along with cyclists to shout as loud as the motoring lobbiesnaybe there would be some gains made. It took one woman in Holland to start a cycling revolution when her child getting run over was one death too many and look where they are now. It isn't a fast process nor is it impossible as many countries across the world prove. Lobby mp's repeatedly and don't stop until they listen. Currently in the UK it seems idealistic I agree but I don't think it is impossible and won't be tomorrow.

The "too many cooks" problem of British Cycling (primarily a sports body) and Sustrans (primarily route makers) and their supporters arguing with Cycling UK and the various local cycling campaigns has been a problem, but even if all current cyclists agreed perfectly, that would still only be 15% of the population, according to the last Active Lives Survey. I think it's important to remember that the Dutch revolution kicked off when the shouting spread far beyond just those then cycling.

How do we do that here and now? I don't know. We're living in a country where loads of politicians wibble about "cars are essential" and "a car is a lifeline", where killing someone on a bike in broad daylight only gets a one year driving ban and community service and where babies are run over and killed on cycleways resembling pavements and a grieving parent told that the road doesn't deserve safety improvements and most of those cases only make the local news, not national, because it's so widespread. This awful situation seems to be tolerated, with attempts to improve it banging into the Great British "won't do" attitude.

So we keep on, lobbying politicians and contacting designers. I spoke at a council hearing a few weeks ago. One of my friends is asking questions of a different council meeting this evening. We keep on sending messages to MPs and councillors. I bumped into a councillor at an exhibition yesterday and tried to explain the problems with a recent project (she asked - I went for the exhibition, not in hope of lobbying!). Later today, I'll be formally objecting to a proposed car-brained industrial estate where the developer cheekily claims that it's something like "only 7 minutes cycling" from suburbs, without mentioning that most of that is on a straight National Speed Limit A road along a former airfield perimeter with thousands of motor vehicles a day, which only the brave, foolish or desperate cycle on. Using the nearest cycle route adds 20 minutes to the journey, making it 3½ sides of a square. Anyone know how we could get developers to propose nice things instead of this car-brained junk? Then the politicians wouldn't matter so much. Should cycling campaigns start to call out the likes of PDG Architects and Hudson Architects that are linked to this rubbish? Or restrict our fire to Elm Hall Investments, UBS and Hopkins Homes that own the developments?

 

[mjr]

I would love to see a dawning that use of public transport, solar energy and cycling are ways to reduce our bills, but most of the people I talk with seem to be slightly terrified of a life without a car.

Do you ever ask them why?

But it's hardly surprising when current politicians are telling them cars are essential so government makes so many services difficult to access without using a car, plus doesn't prevent commercial developments being put in places with no sustainable transport links. Too many politicians drive almost everywhere, with some aspiring to be driven in the back of the council limos one day. Does any mayor or council leader here travel by cycle for official business, other than the Mayor of Cambridge once a year?

The new Mayor of Paris rode a hire bike to his celebration:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPTUxMvM0bY

He didn't need to do that. He'd already won. When will we see similar around here?

 

[matticus]

The new Mayor of Paris rode a hire bike to his celebration:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPTUxMvM0bY

He didn't need to do that. He'd already won. When will we see similar around here?

I guess we could elect Boris again maybe?

<runs>

 

[mjr]

I guess we could elect Boris again maybe?

<runs>

I can only find pictures of Boris walking to London mayoral declarations. Did he ever cycle to one?

He was fine (not great - fine) as a city mayor for cycling. He took some of that with him to national level (both the current design manual and the start of Active Travel England came during his administration, and his London Commissioner Andrew Gilligan became an adviser to the UK government) but overall I think it's a shame Boris didn't finish at city level, with starting really cleaning up London being his main legacy.

 

[blackrat]

Do you ever ask them why?

But it's hardly surprising when current politicians are telling them cars are essential so government makes so many services difficult to access without using a car, plus doesn't prevent commercial developments being put in places with no sustainable transport links. Too many politicians drive almost everywhere, with some aspiring to be driven in the back of the council limos one day. Does any mayor or council leader here travel by cycle for official business, other than the Mayor of Cambridge once a year?

The new Mayor of Paris rode a hire bike to his celebration:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPTUxMvM0bY

He didn't need to do that. He'd already won. When will we see similar around here?

Here's a British Conservative politician who was always to be seen cycling on his brompton between his chambers and parliament: I saw him often on his bike in Westminster weaving in an out of traffic. This was when politicians were quite nice blokes. He was always ready with a laugh and a quip with Taxi drivers who also thought he was an okay Tory. It was a much nicer time than now.

Quintin Hogg (Baron Hailsham of Saint Marylebone) (1907–2001)