Ming the Merciless
There is no mercy
- Location
- Inside my skull
Get a cargo e bike, room for kids and shopping. You’ve planned your life around using your car for all these things. You just need to replan it if you really want to reduce car use.
Cycle versus car - false economy?
- Thread starter wafter
- Start date
Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
Get a cargo e bike, room for kids and shopping. You’ve planned your life around using your car for all these things. You just need to replan it if you really want to reduce car use.
Alex321
Veteran
- Location
- South Wales
Not necessarily either.
Your particular bike is crazy expensive. Most bikes will cost significantly less than most cars to maintain and run - and when you add in depreciation costs, WAY more.
Yes, many bikes do cost more than a lot of people would expect to maintain and run, if used heavily. But still not as much as most cars.
Although it is certainly true that modern cars cost a lot less to maintain than cars of 20-30 years ago did. Parts tend to last much longer - I used to expect to replace exhaust parts once a year or less, with the complete exhaust system being effectively replaced about every three years. I haven't had to replace any on my last couple of cars over 6-7 years between them, and probably still with the originals on them when I boughtr them.
Alex321
Veteran
- Location
- South Wales
As I said, your particular bike is crazy expensive.
Even counting the crash repairs, I haven't spend anywhere NEAR £680 on my bike in the last 5000 miles, and I doubt many people do.
E-bikes may work out a little more expensive than normal bikes, but not usually that much more. Most do not need a new battery that often.
You also didn't include costs such as insurance or MOT - insurance for my bike (value up to £2500) adds £18 to the cost of my household insurance. Insurance for my car is about £600.
bonzobanana
Guru
What about tax and insurance? £230 service and £450 for a new battery seems excessive to me. Most entry level ebikes are simple and reliable making use of hub motors and non-proprietary batteries and electronics. The sort of stuff you can service and replace yourself. I think the average price of bikes sold is still around £400 including ebikes and according to Chinese industry statistics over 95% of their exported ebikes are hub motor based. Some of the cheaper ebikes are based around thicker tyres and heavier more durable drivetrains using more steel. Hub motors don't work through the drivetrain so massively extend drivetrain life even over conventional bicycles. Sometimes the motor is enough so you can just have a simple extremely low maintenance single speed drivetrain. £2k is still a lot more than most people will pay for an ebike, its niche pricing, probably not recognised as such on a bicycle forum where people are more enthusiastic for bikes in general but people just using bikes for commuting with little interest in them beyond that make do with simpler more durable bikes. I recently read on a forum someone who had used their original chain for 5-10,000 miles on a hub based ebike and at that point were not intending to replace it either it still hadn't worn significantly. It was in the US and they have more powerful ebikes which reduces wear on the drivetrain even more and the majority are throttle based so they only have to pedal when they desire to do so but the bike in question had a very low end tourney drivetrain and freewheel. No reason for ebike running costs not to be extremely and I mean extremely low as long as you haven't bought a lightweight over complicated ebike with many proprietary components.
You guys must view life very different, it hit -5 on the way to work from school. Guess how many cargo bikes I saw on the commute today versus cars.......and heated seats, steering wheel, 23 degrees of warm air blown around me whilst listening to hear lossless streaming via Tidal.....No I have no interest in reducing my car use, and actually I've come to realise its mad I've been using the eBike as much as I have. The numbers just don't work for me, and this thread has simply highlighted it very clearly.
Am glad you guys love trying to get everything done on pedal bikes, but for 99.999% of people in the UK its pure fantasy. Infact I don't think I've ever come across a cargo bike on the road of Leicestershire, where as cars, well they are literally everywhere, says it all really
.
chriswoody
Legendary Member
- Location
- Northern Germany
Some interesting points being raised throughout the thread and mirrors some of the thinking that I've been mulling over in the last year or so. For us as a family, a car is an essential for a number of reasons, not least of which is the fact that my family live in the SW of England and by far and away the cheapest way to get there with my family, from Germany, is to drive. My wife also uses the car for work as there just isn't a practical alternative, public transport is just sadly too intermittent to get her there and back on time. We've never had to use a car for school runs though, with the junior school a 100m from our door and now eldest daughter has moved on, her school is 5km away, but she has a free bus pass and two buses whisk her to school every morning.
That all said, we have been mulling over ways to cut our already low car usage even more. Whilst small shopping errands have always been done by bike, it's not been practical to do a weekly family shop by bike, the nearest large shops are 4 km away which is too far to walk with a weeks shopping and no busses run there. In Germany we also don't have shopping home delivery services, so car it was.
I did weigh up a number of options like cargo bikes, but we had no good storage options for a big heavy cargo bike, so I settled on a trailer from Croozer. It's been absolutely brilliant, we have two bike attachment mounts on some ancient old town bikes that we use as general run around bikes and we use it for running all manner of errands. The trailer cost €300, but that's it, in 10 months I've not spent another penny on either the bikes or trailer. It gets used weekly for all kinds of errands and easily swallows a week's family shopping along with the occasional cheeky crate of beer. Just this morning it was -1 when I set off with a trailer full of paper and glass recycling, that done it was off to the supermarket for a weeks family shopping.
That all said, we have been mulling over ways to cut our already low car usage even more. Whilst small shopping errands have always been done by bike, it's not been practical to do a weekly family shop by bike, the nearest large shops are 4 km away which is too far to walk with a weeks shopping and no busses run there. In Germany we also don't have shopping home delivery services, so car it was.
I did weigh up a number of options like cargo bikes, but we had no good storage options for a big heavy cargo bike, so I settled on a trailer from Croozer. It's been absolutely brilliant, we have two bike attachment mounts on some ancient old town bikes that we use as general run around bikes and we use it for running all manner of errands. The trailer cost €300, but that's it, in 10 months I've not spent another penny on either the bikes or trailer. It gets used weekly for all kinds of errands and easily swallows a week's family shopping along with the occasional cheeky crate of beer. Just this morning it was -1 when I set off with a trailer full of paper and glass recycling, that done it was off to the supermarket for a weeks family shopping.
annirak
Veteran
- Location
- Cambridge, UK
You guys must view life very different, it hit -5 on the way to work from school. Guess how many cargo bikes I saw on the commute today versus cars.......and heated seats, steering wheel, 23 degrees of warm air blown around me whilst listening to hear lossless streaming via Tidal.....No I have no interest in reducing my car use, and actually I've come to realise its mad I've been using the eBike as much as I have. The numbers just don't work for me, and this thread has simply highlighted it very clearly.
Am glad you guys love trying to get everything done on pedal bikes, but for 99.999% of people in the UK its pure fantasy. Infact I don't think I've ever come across a cargo bike on the road of Leicestershire, where as cars, well they are literally everywhere, says it all really
View attachment 670555
It’s great that you’ve found a transport solution that works for you. That said, “lossless streaming via tidal” isn’t really a data point on “false economy.”
The more salient point was your metrics on ebike maintenance. The measurements you’ve made are concerning. You shouldn’t be replacing a battery every 2 years. If we were to adopt the expected maintenance pattern instead, the conclusion would be substantially different.
If I were in your place, I’d be looking at who’s doing my servicing…
fossyant
Ride It Like You Stole It!
- Location
- South Manchester
You guys must view life very different, it hit -5 on the way to work from school. Guess how many cargo bikes I saw on the commute today versus cars.......and heated seats, steering wheel, 23 degrees of warm air blown around me whilst listening to hear lossless streaming via Tidal.....No I have no interest in reducing my car use, and actually I've come to realise its mad I've been using the eBike as much as I have. The numbers just don't work for me, and this thread has simply highlighted it very clearly.
Am glad you guys love trying to get everything done on pedal bikes, but for 99.999% of people in the UK its pure fantasy. Infact I don't think I've ever come across a cargo bike on the road of Leicestershire, where as cars, well they are literally everywhere, says it all really
View attachment 670555
I'd recommend ditching the e-bike and going old school, you know, 100% renewable leg power and cheaper to maintain. I'd have been riding this week had I not been recovering from covid. I did take the corgi toy to work (rather than my large car) which uses next to no fuel, whilst I crawled 10 miles to work in 90 minutes due to traffic and an accident. 45 minutes on the bike ! Can't wait until my chest get's better.
Ming the Merciless
There is no mercy
- Location
- Inside my skull
Only because you choose to do it that way, not because you can’t. You are unwilling to change your way of using a 2 ton vehicle as a shopping trolley.
Absolutely my choice, why would I want to give up creature comforts and risk the lives of my family for no reason?
The service is done by the local bike shop.....I use to use Halfords (but I understand on here thats seen as a dirty word). But essentially I have no plans to keep on using the eBIke for regular commuting, so I suspect it'll be the last 'service' the bike get for a long time!
Ming the Merciless
There is no mercy
- Location
- Inside my skull
Bit dramatic. It’s really okay to go places outside of a 2 ton tin can you know.
annirak
Veteran
- Location
- Cambridge, UK
I have a very strange bike, but even with that, I’ve never paid more than £60 for a “service.” If they’d asked me to pay £230 I would have laughed and walked out.
If your battery has failed after 2 years, that’s a manufacturing defect unless you’re a Deliveroo rider. E-bike batteries should not wear out that fast, especially with light to moderate use.
You’ve made a decision to use your car more based on comfort. That is your prerogative. But those numbers don’t make sense, which makes the financial argument you’re making (ev cheaper than e-bike) confusing to me.
^Honestly I don't really care what anyone else does, I know the costs and I've done the numbers.
The eBike is fine tool for commuting but it's expensive per mile than our EV, so the only real benefit is when it allows me to avoid city centre rush hour traffic.
I've owned an EV since 2015, so I know what to expect from batteries, but its pretty clear to me eBike batteries are simply not the same calibre as cells used in automotive applications.
This thread has simply allowed me to clarify things I have suspect for a while. Sorry but for me, our EV is cheaper, more comfortable, far more convient and safe than the eBike. Aside from last mile city centre rush hour traffic I don't see myself using the eBike going into 2023.
I was pretty much the only person at the department that commuted on a pedal bike consistently the last 18 months. I gave it go, but the majority were more sensible all along it seems.
It's doesn't mean I'm not going to cycle any more, infact I suspect I'll be buying another more expensive eBike soon.....however for actual day to day transportation am sticking with car going fowards. Not sure if I can be bothered to sell the current eBike.
The eBike is fine tool for commuting but it's expensive per mile than our EV, so the only real benefit is when it allows me to avoid city centre rush hour traffic.
I've owned an EV since 2015, so I know what to expect from batteries, but its pretty clear to me eBike batteries are simply not the same calibre as cells used in automotive applications.
This thread has simply allowed me to clarify things I have suspect for a while. Sorry but for me, our EV is cheaper, more comfortable, far more convient and safe than the eBike. Aside from last mile city centre rush hour traffic I don't see myself using the eBike going into 2023.
I was pretty much the only person at the department that commuted on a pedal bike consistently the last 18 months. I gave it go, but the majority were more sensible all along it seems.
It's doesn't mean I'm not going to cycle any more, infact I suspect I'll be buying another more expensive eBike soon.....however for actual day to day transportation am sticking with car going fowards. Not sure if I can be bothered to sell the current eBike.
Last edited:
How many families have seen going around UK roads in cargo bikes in the last week? There is a very good reason SUVs sales are so high.
Having experienced first hand the consequences of poor UK driving standards, whilst am happy to expose my self to the risks of cycling on public roads, its not something I would want my family exposed to.
If I had been on my pedal bike instead of my car a few years ago, I suspect I woudlnt be here to have this 'debate'
.
